Hi, Saw this article over at San Jose Kenpo. "Count Dante" It is an interesting article and gives a good version of what was going on in the world of MA besides the propaganda of Hollywood. This was a full blown operation, not a small potato outfit with celebrities. http://www.chicagoreader.com/features/stories/countdante/ Some actually took it and ran with the mentality in No. CA. A decade later, and then another decade, continues until now. Some named players back in the 60's and 70's for those that are not that familiar with some other history of MA. Gary
Last match Back in 1975 I attended that last tournament that was held in Taunton Ma. What a joke. This was a full contact, no holds barred event. Aguiar / Keehans team put oil all over their bodies so that they couldn't be grabbed, this included their hair. At this tournament a group of martial artists put together a team, (one of them was from my school). They had never met before this event. This group kicked butt.
Match I don't remember it being called, The Taunton Death Match, I will track down down a few others who also attended and ask them if they remember. In part of the Tournaments discription the phrase, fight to the death was used. The winning trophy is still around in my area some where. If I can find it I will take a photograph of it and post it here on the forum.
I remember count dante,used to train in street clothes on bar stools and stuff like that,well ahead of his time with some ideas!(putting oil all over would spoil some grapplers!) is he still alive?
No he is dead, you might want to read the article... Here is a location to go to if you want to. http://www.countdante.com/page2.html The thing about this fellow and his routine, Bruce Juchnik did similar things on the west coast. Dan Babcock went back to IL and trained after this time frame give or take a few years, and so did Bruce Juchnik. The controversy was not what Al Tracy wanted. About that time during the 70's is when that sort of thing came to the west coast, 1977 is when Bruce met Mitose and that became the big scandel for awhile (Mitose in jail etc) Still mentiond almost daily in forums. Time for it to take a rest I'd say.
From what they say here, he was to fast for the camera CountDante.com Count Dante, The Legend Wednesday, June 08, 2005 Count Juan Raphael Dante, an immediate descendant of European nobility and a legend in his own time, is the most famous fighting arts master in history. The Patriarch and Supreme Grand-Past-Master of the Black Dragon Fighting Society, "Dan-Te (Deadly Hands) System of Fighting and World Karate Federation is a legend in the Martial Arts world. Count Dante (himself undefeated) and his students have amassed over 1,000 trophies and awards in international competition. A few of the titles held by him or his teams include: World Champions 63, 65,67; Worlds Top Team 63, 64,65,66,67; Professional World Karate Champion 67; Professional World Karate Championship Top Team 67; International Champion 65; Nation's (USA) Top Team 64; Canada's Top Team 65. Even though the Count no longer entered teams in competition, many of his students or their students, still carry away the top awards in major Karate competition. Count Dante was never defeated, tied or even injured in any of the full contact, no holds barred matches he had had against some of the world's top experts, and masters of Street fighting, Judo, Karate, Kung Fu, Boxing, Wrestling, Savate, Tai Chi Chuan, Aikido, Jiu-Jitsu, Dim Mak or other forms of self defense or fighting arts. Count Dante often appeared on national radio and television programs such as "To Tell the Truth," "What's My Line," CBS - TV "Sports Special," "Mid-West Sports Spectacular," "Wide World of Sports" and performed public demonstrations of martial arts for the "United Nations," the "New York World's Fair" and in various motion picture productions. In 1964 Count Dante was referred to by Black Belt Magazine (the "Bible of Karate') as one of the top Karate instructors in the world. In 1957 the Count had a chance to put his fighting skills to practical use as a mercenary guerrilla officer in the Sierra Maestra mountains of eastern Cuba (Oriente Province) and later in Havana itself during the military campaigns between the forces of Fulgencio Batista and Fidel Castro. With the relaxation of political pressures placed on titled Spanish families, the Count dropped his American name and adopted his original and legitimate European family name and hereditary title of nobility set aside by his family when they fled Europe to America during the Spanish Civil War in the 1930s. On Sept. 1, 1967, the Directive Committee of the World Federation of Fighting Arts declared Count Dante the "Worlds Deadliest Fighting Master" in recognition of his having defeated the worlds foremost fistic and grappling arts masters in 'no-holds-barred' fighting matches. Count Dante was the first, last and only person to win his title after the 1967 world fighting arts "Death Matches" (now illegal). Black Belt magazine, the world's oldest self-defense magazine, in 1964 referred to Count Dante as one of the top instructors in the world, then went on to give him the largest personal write - up in their history in a two-piece article in their April 1969 and July 1969 issues. By pioneering the events and setting the standards by which all future events would be judged, Count Dante's actions ultimately led to (A) open INTERNATIONAL COMPETITI0N, (B) WORLD PROFESSIONAL KARATE, and (C) WORLD CONTACT KARATE OR KICK BOXING. Aside from his own unmatched fighting abilities, he individually produced more fighting arts champions than any organization or association in the world. As director of a large Import/Export firm, he had frequent opportunity to visit factories in India, China, Indonesia, Korea, and Japan, and always found time to train in the various Oriental schools of fighting arts. Count Dante originally trained in Okinawan and Japanese style Karate, and later mastered the Chinese Arts of Kung Pu, Tai Chi Chuan, Kempo and Shaolin Boxing. His broad mastery of all the ancient eastern fighting systems culmi-nated in his creation of the dreaded Dan-Te (Deadly Hands) System of Fighting. The Count was an expert in Judo, Jiu-Jitsu, Kung Fu, Tai Chi Chuan, Shaolin Boxing, Kempo, Karate, Yawara, Boxing and Wrestling. Additionally, he held a Black Belt in Aikido and a Masters Certificate in Kibo. Until 1962 Count Dante was the head instructor for the United States Karate Association (U.S.K.A) Because of his own Spanish origins he felt that separation from the U.S.K.A was inevitable. The Count perceived an innate sense of bigotry and prejudice within the world and American martial arts hierarchy toward Black and Hispanic martial arts practitioners. Above and beyond all of his accomplishments, awards, accolades and tributes, he was most proud of paving the way for Black and Hispanic martial artists in Chicago and throughout the Midwest. Count Dante held the first 'World Karate Championship' in 1962. This was the first open international Karate championship ever held. Count Dante' held this same championship for seven years (up to and including 1968). In 1967 Count Dante' held the first Professional World Karate Championship' which offered the winner $1O,000 in the contact Karate or Kick Boxing division. Black Belt magazine, in their August 1967 issue, criticized the event, polling the leadership of Karate in the United States, along with the heads of every major Karate organization to confirm their contempt of this innovative competition. All persons and organizations contacted criticized the championship without exception. It seems that Count Dante was always ten years ahead of his time because today the same type of contests are being held throughout the United States. The 1967 Champion-ship was won by Victor Ryther, sixth degree Black belt and a student of Count Dante. In 1968 Count Dante held the first professional 'World Fighting Arts Championship'. This was not an exhibition similar to the ones held now. Participants were not selected and the fighters were not matched up beforehand as they are today. In the 1968 championship there was a 10,000 cash prize offered the winner. The championship was open to all fighters from all fighting systems, styles or arts. Anyone could enter, such as professional boxers, wrestlers, judoka, karateists, kung fu experts, Thai boxers, street fighters, etc. In this contest there were no rounds, no protective gear or gloves were allowed and the winner was decided by knockout. Count Dante personally went to Muhammad Ali's (Cassius Clay) house on the south side of Chicago and challenged the Heavyweight Boxing Champion of the world. Count Dante' also challenged the World Heavyweight Wrestling Champion and the World Heavyweight Judo Champion. Count Dante personally entered the contest and defeated all the comers. The December 1970 issue of Mr. America magazine praised Count Dante for his attempts to update the science of self-defense. In the same article, featured in the August 1971 issue of Official Karate magazine, Count Dante proved the inferiority of the traditional martial arts as they were being practiced at that time. In this book, "The Worlds Deadliest Fighting Secrets", the Count elaborated on the shortcomings of all the present day defense systems. In both this book and his "Karate is for Sissies" article, Count Dante stressed the weakness of the martial arts systems as concerns their use and practicality on the street, and stressed that the self-defense arts should become FIGHTING ARTS. This book and article completely changed the structure, attitude, and application of the martial arts, and since that time most top martial arts leaders and publications have stressed the STREET APPLICATION of their arts and articles much as if they had conceived the idea themselves. No credit was given to Count Dante by the martial arts media or the martial arts leaders due to his violent past and because he demonstrated to them their own weaknesses. Count Dante formed his own Fighting system called " Dan-Te (Deadly Hands) System Fighting". This fighting formed by the late Bruce Lee called Jeet-Kune-Do. Count Dante formed his system several years before Bruce Lee formed his. Both Count Dante and Bruce Lee realized the weaknesses and ineffectiveness of the old systems of defense. In 1973 Count Dante was requested to come to Hollywood, California by Counselor Films to do a screen test for the starring role in a Kung-Fu movie. The test proved futile due to the fact that the camera could not pick up his brutal, lightning - fast hand techniques. The motion picture studio's insurance coverage was canceled due to the injuries of stunt men and martial artists on the set because Count Dante did not pull his punches and kicks. Count Dante and the Black Dragon Fighting Society names and logos are Copyright © 2001, William V. Aguiar. All Rights Reserved. This page, and/or it's contents may not to be duplicated in anyway without written permission from Master Aguiar.
"His Hands were to fast" was what it said. " His Hands were to fast," was what the article said, not the way he moved.
slowing down his clips I am sure if you slow down his clips, (if we can find any of the count himself, ) Then we can see what his hands were doing.
I'll check around and see if any are out there, or somewhere I might be able to locate, maybe if we run them backwards, it will be easier to see That website might be the best bet, that I posted.
Right... Out of sheer curiosity, I feel compelled to ask: Is the dreaded "kata Dante" performed by Ahida Kim connected to Count Dante? Is the statement by Ashida Kim that this form is the only form needed to enter the "Black Dragon Fighting Society" connecting him to Count Dante? Just a question which seemed to beg being asked... Best regards, Rob
Hi, I am not sure but it is possible. This is sort of a history lesson. We will have to banter it around and see what comes up. Gary
Right, Looking at the Count Dante page leads to a mini forum devoted exclusively to debunking Ashida Kim. Question answered in record time, once I looked myself....guess I have to keep learning that lesson time and time again. Best regards, Rob
I have mentioned this: Here is a location to go to if you want to. http://www.countdante.com/page2.html This also: That website might be the best bet, that I posted. *************** But it is not the norm., for people to follow it up... good job.
Bgile, I followed that link to answer my question. Your post is before my post asking about kim.... The statement is about myself, not you. I am the one who could have answered my own question with a little effort on my part. There is a link from the Dante page to the Film in the works, lots of video clips of people talking about the period. Actually kind of nice to see what people had to say about the figures of the day. Best regards, Rob
