Kempo, Kenpo, Karate and Kung Fu

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by BGile, Apr 28, 2007.

  1. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member


    Do you even know anything about the history of WHKD specifically? It had a rather unique development path that is not like anything the people you seem to keep referring to have done, at any point in time.
  2. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    I don't have any more privileges here then anyone else.
    If you use a photo hosting site, like "Imagestation", you can upload all the pictures you want.
  3. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Cool picture, one I have not seen before (not that I am that much in the know)...Charles Goodin will agree with you. I wrote him and that is his thoughts also. I go to locations others will not.

    Thanks for the heads up on the software.

  4. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    I only know what I have read regarding the history of WHKD, I read about your instructor and GM Al De La Cruz when John Bishop pointed me in that direction. I am still trying to see why you don't see what I am trying to point out. Of course I could be wrong also :Aegis:
    So many mysteries and so little time. LOL

  5. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member

    not so many mysteries with this one. The history of WHKD is fairly simple. An abbreviated version is as follows:

    1) Al Dacascos went to the mainland
    2) Al Dacascos helped develop Tum Pai and Chu'an Fa, while continuing his martial arts studies.
    3) Al Dacascos eventually realized his art has diverged significantly from the other branches of Kaju.
    4) Al Dacascos asked Sijo to recognize his art as the 4th branch of Kaju, Wun Hop Kuen Do
    5) in 1969, WHKD was officially founded.

    That be it.
  6. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    See it is a good idea not to allow your own ego to override your past. Some have made that mistake and it was not good.

    In the organization I am on the fringe of (I workout at the school of someone who is in the Org. but me, I am not) they are mentioning how often when the fledging goes out on their own they never return, normal for birds, but not in organizatons :ban: Especially if you have a signed, sealed and blood oath.
    I have noticed on TV and other locations, where it gets sticky.
  7. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned


    Have you seen the explanation of the Kaujkenbo patch at Kingi's location?
    Pretty good, can you upload? I am going to join the Sony Imagestation, have not as of yet.

    I did load the image into my computer so I am ready if you don't. I can e-mail it to Danjo he might do it? :google:


    Some information about karate and who hosted the first tournaments, in the 60's.

    Robert Trias not EP Sr.

    Last edited: May 1, 2007
  8. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Gary, there were tons of tournaments before Parker, but he's the one that made them huge.
  9. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Yes that is true. But it is also different than what he mentions in several interviews and Mills Crenshaw backs him up...LOL...
    Will you upload the emblem info if I send it to you?

    Notice anything that is information in that article about the infancy of Kajukenbo and the time frame, and no kata etc? Hmmmm

    Last edited: May 1, 2007
  10. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Gary, just post the web link where you got that image from. I have seen it before, but can't remember where. It may be copywrited, so I don't want to post it here directly.
  11. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Good idea, I normally do that.... link it.

    Guf, you will like the various terms about Kung Fu, in this one.

    Several different thing's I notice, that have been addressed.

  12. nidan2

    nidan2 New Member

    I'm pretty sure that kaju schools are just like their patches...similar yet different. Sid Asuncion most likely taught a bit different than Victor Gascon or John Leoning. Algene Caraulia added a lot of judo to his "kajukenpo", and required kata from the goju ryu and shotokan systems for each belt level. Teachers like to stress techniques they like and gloss over others, even though they're taught. The one thing that I'm sure about, kaju schools are physical, intense and you have to earn your belt.
  13. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    You have some good point's, that is true. As far as earning a belt, well it is debatable as to how some have earned theirs. Stories are abounding about how they are not that hard to get.

    I am one who has decided I will just do what I want to, and **** the system of belts, and all the BS that is surrounding them.

    I have seen some get the belt, and not earn them in many systems. Sickening to be honest. Pathetic is a good term and it is used a lot when I go to seminars and watch those who have BB and move like a slug. LOL When people have reached that point they should go home and not attend. IMHO...

    The whole MA world is up in arms over it and others just sit, and laugh. :D

  14. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Here is an interesting story about someones learning in Hawaii about 1956-59 era I am thinking...In Japan for a year or so, then to Hawaii for another 1 1/2 years and of course boot camp.




    (Prepared by Mr. John Hutchcroft)


    The year was 1956 and the Korean War was recent history when Phillip Koeppel enlisted in the United States Navy. He was just 18 years old and stationed in Yokohama, Japan when his interest in martial arts drew him to start karate lessons not far from his base.

    Mr. Koeppel took his first karate lesson from Yoshio Kawaguchi, a Wado-ryu stylist on 4 1/2 Street, Yokohama, Japan. After studying for several months he heard of another sensei, Richard Kim, now a well-known martial arts author and sensei. Mr. Kim was an U.S. Army Intelligence Officer who was teaching Shorinji-ryu at Friers Gym, also in Yokohama. Mr. Koeppel studied with Mr. Kim for approximately one year. Mr. Kim's command of English was excellent (he was an American citizen), and Mr. Koeppel progressed quickly.


    One thing is certain about military life...uncertainty, and after Mr. Koeppel had been in the dojo one year he was transferred to his next duty station, Wahiwa, Hawaii. By this time martial arts were in his blood, so his first priority was to find another teacher. Little did he know that he would study with a martial arts legend, Adriano Emperado, founder of Kajukenbo. During this time Kajukenbo was in its infancy and Phillip Koeppel had an opportunity to train with Mr. Emperado during this exciting period of the style's history for approximately one and half years. The system did not have any kata or forms per se, and later, in order to preserve the techniques he had learned, Mr. Koeppel wrote the five Niko Budo forms which are still practiced today.

    I remember that there were not many of the formal katas either as now is mentioned. So can anyone give an update on the new up dates of dates and times of the MA, called Kajukenbo. Shorinji Ryu being mentioned that he took then went to Hawaii, could he have been a help to the development of Kaju?

    I know many stories but I was curious as to when the katas were actually put into place ( I thought around 1960 and expressed it before about that date). Was before or after John Leoning left the Islands, Sonny left and went into the service and could not have learned the katas if they were not there?

    So it seems his is original and not so much a close second? Any explanation. I am not lookng for an arguement just more info.


  15. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    In the early 50's there were originally 8 forms developed by Adriano and Joe Emperado (Pinans 1-8). Towards the end of the 50's, 4 more were added. Around the 60's Pinan 13 & 14 were added as beginner katas, so many schools teach them first.
    John Leoning also developed his own beginners kata, which he just called "beginners kata". It's still taught in the schools from his lineage.
    I know he knew at least the original 8 katas, because there is video (8mm movie) of his class in Kalihi doing the forms, what they called "monkey dances" back then. And my old instructor (from the Leoning lineage) taught the first 6 Pinans.
    But it dosent surprise me that Koppel wasn't taught any forms, or in his words "the system did not have any kata or forms per se". His statement makes it sound like their were Kajukenbo forms (which are very short), but that they wouldn't be considered forms by the more traditional Asain martial artists. And many Kajukenbo instructors don't teach forms, or spend very little time on them.
    Koppel attended the Wahiawa YMCA school, which catered more to Marines, sailors, and soldiers. So there was probably a lot more sparring then kata being taught, since many of the military people were in and out for short periods of time.
    I hope to have a lot more early video availiable in the future. I spent all day sunday at Doug Bunda's school at his annual inter-school tournament, and we talked about putting together a Leoning tribute DVD with all the old movie footage that John Leoning Jr, Carlos Bunda, and Doug Bunda has. We're also going to see if David Kawashima's family has any.
  16. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    John mention's:
    I hope to have a lot more early video availiable in the future. I spent all day sunday at Doug Bunda's school at his annual inter-school tournament, and we talked about putting together a Leoning tribute DVD with all the old movie footage that John Leoning Jr, Carlos Bunda, and Doug Bunda has. We're also going to see if David Kawashima's family has any.

    John, That would be really a good thing, I'll take 10 of um, sight unseen.

    He was a pioneer and should be revered IMHO. So many of the movie industry were around him. It could be done pretty good if you could find some of the old timers to talk about him also. GM Emil Bautista really liked him, so did GM Joe Davis when I talked to them. Professor J. Bautista was really nice to talk to also. It was a good thing going to the Chow Memorial and seeing those old timers.


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