Sensei agreed ...but my comment was they are nice to watch ...not on their effectiveness Personally I like some more atemi in my techniques ..but it doesn't look as nice as the clips shown .. Regards Smurf
With the guy in the first of the last two videos, that was a sucky technique. Uke gave that technique to him. You have to push on the arm to lock up the scapula and then manipulate the body. And in the Jane Ozeki video was not good. She did not bring the arm up alongside the body to again lock up the arm against the scapula. Without this detail, the technique should not work. There is no pressure on uke to escape and roll. I agree with koyo in that it is a technique of opportunity or for henka waza. A REAL GOOD shomen uchi at full force and speed is almost imfrigginpossible to catch or manipulate to kaiten nage.
I have no problem looking nice or pretty (carefull with your reply smurf):evil: BUT if it is not effective then it is not for me. Too much time is spent making it LOOK like aikido rather than FEEL like aikido. Often the attacker hits the floor "like a bag of hammers" NOT pretty but effective. regards koyo JWT One of my guys Chris who lives for martial arts has a bad leg injury (A muay thai kick gone wrong) He comes and trains in weapons and we are all pleased to train with him.Even though he growls like a bear all the time.
LOL!! I am sitting with my leg up unable to train ...its frustration on my part !! I still like watching the gracefulness of the techniques ... maybe because I am not as dainty as some in the clips ...and a little too hard in my techniques .. Bag of hammers !!! I thought you threw them through the floor !!! Like the attached !! Regards as ever The injured Smurf:evil::evil:
A good point. I have found some less understanding clubs where everyone is expected to do the same thing. I have only tried one club near me and found it a little bit airy fairy. The people there were so nice I wanted to stay - but the style of Aikido was not for me. I made a friend last year who runs a Yoshinkan Dojo and has his own premises. I may see about occasional visits to stay with him.
Chris was at last night's training and the fact that he could not just "go for it" ment that he spent the whole night studying principles of body alignment line of attack etc.He mentioned that he had learned a lot because he had had to slow down and look at what he was doing. Hope you find somewhere to train. regards koyo
I didn't post that video to show effectiveness (too pretty for me...hehe). My intention was to show something close to the technique I couldn't remember the name of. That being tenkan Kaiten Nage. The difference is that we end up behind uke so that when they fall the back of their head lands on the top of our knee. It goes something like, a long sequence to write, but it all happens quickly. (1) Cut uke's arm down (2) back hand slap to side of uke's head (3) the hand whips around so it chops down on back of uke's brain stem (4) fingers and thumbs in an "eagle claw" configuration activate the pressure points (at the base of the carotid arteries as you pointed out). (5) uke's head should become limp and crumble down. Drive the your knee into their head as they come down. (6) That's pretty much should the end of it... but to continue, snake the arm around to trap uke's elbow as their head drops down and to your hip on the side under your armpit (so that uke's spine is twisted with you behind them). (7) Drop down, uke should land with the back of their head on the top of your knee. (8) still controlling the arm, "look around for witnesses" No witnesses: single knuckle strike to the point just to the front and under the armpit. Drop them, stomp their ribs, boot their head. Turn them over, arrest them... :evil: Obviously this is the full out sequence that is full of stuff that is a bit of an over kill. My reasoning for posting the sequence is because I have found that ukemi gets better when tori is allowed to attack all weak points. I learned long ago to protect the back of my head on falls close, etc. because of the times that I was "gently" guided to the top of tori's knee, or my spine was twisted enough for me to "have a flashback of my life" (invoke the fear of death in me). On a related note, with the irimi version of Kaiten Nage, we hang on and fall with uke, one forearm lands on uke's neck, the other forearm and elbow land on uke's ribs. This is Kajukenbo training, not Aikido, but I'm sure all of it came from the same origins and share the same principles. Maybe intention is different. The principles in Kaiten Nage focus on how to unbalance uke forward, twisting the spine and controlling their head... fundamental stuff that can lead to many applications including applications from the clinch and when sprawling.
NEVER attempt to throw someone who has not been properly unbalanced first. That is my main compaint with those videos. The uke simply grabs hold and then "follows" until it is time to fall. Bad training for uke WORSE training for tori. Imagine a fighter who cares not at all to harmonise with the technique= disaster.Once again aikido gets a bad rep. regards koyo
Aikido plus DART? Worth a try? Does anyone have a video of a GOOD kaiten nage - something to aim for if we wanted to do the technique?
We had 16 different forms of attack. There were Japanese names but they were mostly referred to by number. 1st form, 2nd form etc. I know exactly what you mean by in appropriate techniques for certain attacks. Used to do my head in. It's interesting that you're throwing uke at an angle to his own attack. That to me always seemed to be the natural result of Kaiten nage. But I was always told to send them back the way they came. Which was never easy. People just don't bend that way. The last two videos didn't do much for me either. Uke just didn't seem to be under any kind of control.
I landed on my head once. My brain didn't mind, but my neck and shoulder still get grumpy about it. Anybody would think your neck wasn't supposed to support your entire body weight.
Sometimes seeing how things shouldn't be done is just as helpful. Don't do your techniques like this. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtQ-NxkjmAw"]YouTube - Tanto and 8 Man Attack[/ame]
Well, it isn't the worst, I'd say some of it is good, maybe about a third is good structure, IMHO. The rest, kind of not so good. IMHO, Koyo is right to point out particularly when principles are ignored or neglected. e.g. neglecting the principle of proper unbalancing ALWAYS before throw or lock, etc. I will say, however, that that does not make everything bad, only parts of it bad. Good and bad can be seen. On a related note, I could not help laughing at the 8 man attack at the end of the video. I was imagining some CGI making the uke look like zombies... take a look at the 8 man attack in the video, only imagine all the uke are zombies... I think we got the makings of a cult classic movie here.
I like this video [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciYiQC-_Sg0&feature=related"]YouTube - Kaiten Nage[/ame]
That's okay you don't have to spare my feelings Maybe I should change the title to; Dojo Of The Dead!!!
A star is born :evil: It wasn't the uke that were attacking that looked like zombies (although they could be the new kind of super fast zombies). It was the uke waiting to attack, some just swayed back and forth, like they could have been saying something like, "brains... brains... brains..." On a more serious note, I would have given the video more props if the knife hadn't been handed back to uke each time by handle first. Handing the knife back reminded me of something seen in BJJ class, not Aikido I also wanted to see more attacking the uke instead of waiting for uke to make the first move. Take uke out of their comfort zone. Otherwise, there was good stuff. Some nice work at getting uke to spin and turn around.
