Hey all. While I'm still on the hunt for a JJJ school I am studying quite a bit of Shuaijiao (Chinese Fast Wrestling) which has some very nast throws. I came across this one particular throw which I just love and wondered if anyone knows of an equivalent in JJJ? Here's the set up. The attacker attacks with a left heel kick. The reciever performs a block/catch and quickly swings 180 (with back to attacker) ducking under the attackers left leg, into a half squat. Now whilst still holding onto the attackers leg, the reciever pulls the attackers heel (The attackers left leg is now over the recievers right shoulder with the attackers posterior knee hinging over the receivers shoulder) firmly into his chest and rotates forwards pulling down and lifting through the back whilst holding onto attackers lower leg and face planting attacker into the ground in a pretty ugly throw. Ofcourse all of this has to be done with maximum speed, co-ordination and timing. If you don't know what the move looks like or I have explained it poorly try and imagine what someone looks like when they ride a bycycle and they hit something which pitches them face forward into the pavement... kind of like that but instead of a bike being beneath them, it's a person throwing them... with a smile on their face. In Shuaijiao this move is called "Holding one leg, carrying over the shoulder throw" Best, Syd
doesn't sound too familiar to be honest. Most of what we do is a lot more direct, not requiring quite so much moving around and intricate positioning. About the closest I could think of was kata-garuma (shoulder wheel), but that's like a fireman's lift and only requires a 90 degree turn.
Aegis, It might sound like allot but it's actually very fast and nasty and doesn't look so laboured in action as my explanation is. Unfortunately to get the detail of the positioning across in words it seems like it's intricate... it's actually very direct. Thanks for replying though. It's quite easy to get under the attackers guard with the opening made of the left heel kick. You flow from the block straight into the squat turn, yank the leg over the shoulder and let rip... done.
As you say, techniques are difficult to get across online, so I may just be picturing it wrong. Best bet would be to go to a jujutsu club and ask the instructor. If he doesn't know, he may well want to learn it and add it to his own list of techniques
I had a look about and basically think Tsurikomi-goshi but instead of the grip on the arm/lapel you've got the guys left leg hooked over your shoulder. You basically execute the throw just like Tsurikomi-goshi. I might add that Shuaijiao is possibly the oldest recorded Chinese Martial art dating back 2000 years. Apparently there's something like 3900 techniques and throws within the system. Trust me to choose the most difficult one to explain as a favourite! Cheers,
Yep. I suppose the positioning for tsurikomi-goshi makes sense, and I can picture the throw a bit better now. Still not entirely sure I'd like to try it, but if it works, then go for it!
I think the difficulty in converting to a JJ or Judo throw is that typically we wouldn't attack in that way because of the damage that would be inflicted from the types of throws you are describing. Not to say that Judoka/JJ wouldn't do that throw - exactly the opposite, really. Just that it's hard to train against something like that because no Judoka in their right mind would try that against another (the kick you described).
Jim, Roger that. Obviously this is a throw against styles that show a prevalence towards kicking. Then again if we only trained for arts that mirror our own then we'd surely be caught short some time down the line. I was just curious that was all. Infact here from a Combat Judo article I found two Judo guys performing a defense against the very same kick I am talking about, the same one you were saying Judokas and Jujitsukas might never attempt? It's a front heel kick, pretty common even to the layman and as such something worth training a realistic defense for. http://www.blackbeltmag.com/archives/blackbelt/1992/jun92/combatjudo/tech2.html And here's the very same kick again in another Combat Judo application. http://w1.261.telia.com/~u26130214/judo/kimenokata/keage.html Best, Syd
If you end up on the inside of the kick (rather than the outside as pictured) you would probably use Ko Uchi Maki Komi (see Leg Throws at www.agjs.com or www.judoinfo.com for a pic). Otherwise the outside ones you provided are great.
Syd, Interesting throw, I think that a point to be noted might be that your throw might be dependent on a thrust kick where the attacker keeps his weight forward. The JJJ style that I do favors snap kicks, and defenses from them like the examples that you posted. We do an entrance like the one you discribe up to 180deg. pivot w/ back to Uke. But, then we quickly reiki pivot while lifting the leg to dump Uke backward onto his head. Strike to the groin as you pivot into raised leg & just before Uke falls. Fun stuff, but try to catch a kick while sparring; it is hard for me anyway w/ the guys I spar with.
Cal, Your so right there. I think the main point is to really get a good tight block/wrap on the foot as it jabs forwards. We have a technique in Taijiquan (Shuaijiao is essentially the Combat Wrestling curriculum of Taijiquan) which is used in what we call Long Har Chuan, Squid boxing or Dragon Prawn Boxing. Again it's very hard to describe techniques but in Taiji we tend to yeild, borrow and redirect. Obviously Shuaijia is called fast wrestling because the techniques require high speed and anticipation to get it on. Using a blocking technique from Long Har Chuan (it's like a block wrap using both hands) you can block and trap the foot whilst simultaneously spinning into the 180 squat as you yank and crank that knee over the shoulder and then throw that sucker face first into the ground. The whole thing is done as one movement and certainly not as three seperate things, you know how throws look when the flow is right. I'm not saying it would be the highest percentage move on anybody, you'd have to size up your opponent and judge the speed and agility in their kicking techniques. If you got a slightly larger opponent who wasn't too fast in kicks it would a perfect time to block, trap, slip under, hook that leg over the shoulder and chuck that sucker forwards on their heads. Best, Syd ...
Syd, Last night we had a small turnout due to it being “finals” week at the schools here. There were one Blue-belt, two Brown-belts, a Black-belt, & Sensei. So, Sensei decides to break from our regular routine and work on some counter-counter stuff & controlling our opponent. At any rate, at the end of class, he was emphasizing on feeling how your opponent is moving and adapt. At this time, without going over his intentions, he had a student throw a round-house punch & he demonstrated Seoi Nage. He then had the student throw a round-house kick & he caught the leg, spun in to one knee, and threw the student Seoi Nage by the leg! It was all in one fast motion, as you described, and it looked great! I’ve been working w/ that Sensei for about 14yrs and have never heard of or seen that technique in a JJJ class before. He stood up and said “ adapt ”! Take Care; DavidM
Freeform; What system were you studying when you encountered it? From what I can find out it hasn't been a practiced technique in our system since the early '70's.
Goshindo Tai Jitsu. I was sparring with my Instructor, threw a round kick to his ribs (with right leg), he came forward scooping it with his right arm grabbed my gi with his left and launched me!
