Judo compatibility with other arts in 2016

Discussion in 'Judo' started by Prizewriter, Jan 5, 2016.

  1. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    SWC Sifu Ben - take into account that wrestling was almost dropped for being a boring spectator sport and would have most definitely lost massive funding internationally.
  2. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    The job of the IJF is to spread the sport, which requires funding. It is literally the reason they exist. And for the third time, being thumped by wrestlers wasn't the major concern (I don't believe one of those imports won a single medal in Beijing), but it did have a detrimental impact on the sport as a whole. Instead of exciting attacking Judo you had two people bent over at the waist stiff arming each other and being ultra defensive until one or the other would occasionally shoot in for a technique (that often wasn't even a true attack) to ward off a passivity penalty, which would fail because of their opponent being ultra defensive. Rinse and repeat and oh look, yet another boring fight, won on penalties.

    Judo is judo. Why do I care about how it helps me against a freestyle fighter? One of the things I love about Judo is how unpretentious it is. It doesn't pretend to be the be all and end all of martial arts. It's a sport and an awesome one. You go onto a judo mat and ask the coach what (s)he'd do if someone threw a punch at them, they'd tell you that they'd call the police/complain to the referee.
    And despite all those changes, Judo is still a more effective style than almost any other.
  3. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Yeah, funding because otherwise people think it looks boring to watch. For the second time I get that.

    What does that have to do with the individual effectiveness of Judo and it's compatibility with other grappling styles and free fighting? Beyond hamstringing it as I've previously said....?
  4. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    But the question being asked here is how compatible is Judo. I would say arguably less so with the rule restrictions than without. Although I guess you're trying to make the case that you need those artificial rules in order to force judo techniques into being relevant? I guess that would explain why wrestling tends to be cross culturally common and judo isn't. It would also point to judo being less compatible if it needs those rules for its techniques to flourish.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2016
  5. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Except wrestling apparently :)
  6. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    Judo is a fine base art, and one of the better ones at that. Even modern, no-leg grabbing Judo.

    No one complains that wrestling isn't a good base because it doesn't teach you how to defend against kicks. Wrestling is the best MA base there is, and there's a whole bunch of stuff with which it doesn't concern itself.

    A good Judoka (which I am not) is a terrifying opponent.
  7. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Yeah - I'm becoming a believer.
  8. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Not being as effective as wrestling is a problem in pretty much every martial art style.
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    This is also true!
  10. Bomber

    Bomber Valued Member

    On the ground maybe. However, their stand up will exceed that of most BJJ brown belts upwards.
  11. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    With the rules the way they are now, freshly minted ones are generally pretty easy for any competitive BJJ player to take down.

    P.S. Not to say they don't have a lot of transferable skills, but they don't get a chance to use any of them until they pick up basic leg-attack defence.
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2016
  12. Lennert

    Lennert Valued Member

    Judoka's don't know any basic defense against leg-attacks where you live? Because around here, any basic leg-attack is quickly noticed and dealt with by any self-respecting judoka..

    I'm sorry to say this, because I respect you guys alot, but you have to stop glorifying your magically invincible BJJ bluebelts... Don't you see how empty and situational such claims are?
  13. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Wasn’t it only in 2013 that judo completely ended leg attacks, before this you could initiate them as a second attack correct?

    And since a black belt in judo can take up to 5 years or so even most new blackbelts will have had grounding in leg attacks no? Especially if they came up playing judo as kids
  14. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    Really, where's that? Because around here most people practise for the sport they actually play.
    I'm a brown belt with ten years in, actually, and I'm talking about what I've seen on the actual mat.
    Even before the partial-and-then-total ban it was already pretty difficult to score with e.g. a snatch single in a Judo match because you couldn't hold onto it for any length of time, finish it off your knees or land the guy on his belly. Added to which there's the cultural bias against them. Combinations and counters off upper-body throws plus the basic use and defence of the blast double were pretty much the standard.

    A top guy often has such good basic grappling savvy that he's tough to deal with for non-elite grapplers of any sort, whether he strictly has all the technical skills or not, but what I'd call a 'grounding' in leg-attacking for take-downs rather than scoring throws hasn't ever been a core part of Judo.
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2016
  15. Lennert

    Lennert Valued Member

    If only we had some way of sharing our location automatically with every post ;)

    But, come on.. judoka's still have to protect their legs from sweeps/throws and during newaza they have to keep them free to get a point. That's "basic leg defense" on it's own. And it's not like they are suddenly blind and oblivious when someone tries to grab their leg, it's not rocket science.. Especially not since they know they can expect that kind of behaviour from a BJJ guy.

    And I entered my first tournament when I was 10, let's not make this a ****ing contest.

    You must take into consideration that different sports are practised on a different scale in different countries. BJJ is very small in the Netherlands and there are few who practise it on a competitive level. Judo is HUGE here.. lots of people start at a young age and a good number sticks to it well into adulthood. This creates somewhat of a higher collective intelligence concerning the sport, elevating the average skill level. I'm just saying, if you would pit the average BJJ bluebelt here against the average judo blackbelt, the outcome would very likely be the opposite of what you expect.
  16. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    If you really think this, you have no idea at all how to defend even vaguely competent leg attacks. Have you trained other than in Judo?
    Terrifying. Perhaps don't insult me, if you don't want me to take offence?
    Under what rules?
  17. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Surely this statement alone undermines your point?
  18. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Blue belt here. I beat the average black belt judo player under any set of rules other than judo rules. Not saying much though.
  19. Lennert

    Lennert Valued Member

    Implying a claim is empty and situational is not an insult, let alone a personal insult. Besides, you were the one who started throwing credentials around.

    I train in jiu-jitsu and karate-jitsu as well, not all that relevant though...

    Remember, you were talking about "basic leg-attack defence". I say a judo black belt should have that as a basic competence, even if it's not really needed in competition anymore...
  20. Lennert

    Lennert Valued Member

    Why? It undermines the claim that a BJJ blue belt will defeat a judo black belt, since there is obviously no way to know that this will always be true. Which means it is an emtpy claim as such...

    I'm not saying BJJ is worse than Judo, I'm just saying there is no point in making statements like "This grade in art X will beat that grade in art Y". There are too many parameters still.

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