Jesus Christ (real or not?)

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Bozza Bostik, Oct 19, 2016.

  1. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Not to mention that it's another case (like climate change) of "just wait, you'll see." Except you'll be dead so it's really no risk. You get to keep claiming you're right and that you'll eventually be vindicated while (in your mind only) never having any risk of being proven wrong.

    Just like some of the other things we've discussed here it's a thought process designed to bypass evidence.
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    As they did with St Nicholas
  3. Endolphins

    Endolphins Valued Member

    I feel that perhaps Christ was symbolic of 'christ consciousness', that potential of Self-realization that I feel exists within us all. If he was an actual being here, perhaps he did not want to be put on a pedestal and made into a form of perception control like the religious establishment has made the Messiah figures to be. Perhaps it's allegorical of the 'inner Christ's, that state of peace, love and bliss that we can all tap into beyond ego.

    Just my two cents though.

    All I know is that I know nothing as someone once said :p
  4. 8limbs38112

    8limbs38112 Valued Member

    I dunno what all that means but it sounds really cool and you sound like some kind of enlightened sage. I think I might start following you with the hopes that you can lead me to enlightment.
  5. 8limbs38112

    8limbs38112 Valued Member

    Could you be.......................................the reincarnation of Ghandi?
  6. Endolphins

    Endolphins Valued Member

    Hahaha thanks for the vote of confidence brother but I'm still learning and growing myself.

    Lol at the Ghandi reference
  7. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yeah, it's interesting to contemplate Jesus as a buddha, that Chinese whispers over time turned into something supernatural (much like Siddhārtha Gautama with many Buddhist sects).

    Someone once told me that Siddhārtha Gautama's last words were "don't gossip". I've no idea how true that is, but it paints a very interesting picture of how we deify people rather than learn the same skills that got them where they were. I think there is a lot of truth in The Life of Brian regarding how religions begin. All it takes is gossiping and Chinese whispers to create a god.
  8. Endolphins

    Endolphins Valued Member

    Exactly! It was 'Christ that said and I paraphrase, ''Everything I can do, you can do as well'', which I found very interesting and it resonates with me. We have so much potential just waiting to be tapped into.

    I feel that 'Christ consciousness' may be symbolic of the heart's intelligence rather than the ego and the intellect and perhaps that may be where the ultimate freedom lies :)
  9. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yeah, it's a much more empowering interpretation, that's for sure. But just because an idea is compelling, doesn't make it true.

    All the stuff about "Christ consciousness" is a bit too vague and like religion to me. My heart doesn't have intelligence; cut it out and you will have a very disappointing conversation. I also don't think there is an "ultimate freedom", although it is a worthy journey even if a fool's errand. I reckon you have to think beyond your own life, and beyond generationally, and realise how tiny a cog you are in whatever processes humans are going through. If these prophets really were trying to open up new ways of living and thinking, they haven't made much of a dent in our tried n' true ugliness yet ;)
  10. Endolphins

    Endolphins Valued Member

    Well, I'm not one for religion but I feel there are many hidden messages throughout these texts up to modern times and not just biblical but all over the place throughout this planets history. There seems to be a grand strand connecting all the seemingly unconnected dots but one does not have to be religious or Buddhist, or whatever to see recurring patterns and symbols throughout this experience we're all having individually and collectively. Just an open mind but take it with a grain of salt, not trying to claim I'm right or wrong but it's just all very interesting.

    Regarding disappointment, I won't be because I'm not trying to garner a certain outcome from this conversation. I'm just sharing ideas, up to others if they want to contemplate upon them or not ;)

    Regarding heart intelligence, I feel that it is very real, well at least personally to me, regarding the energy healing stuff I've looked into over the years (so much more to know though!), and in my humble observation, there is more than meets the eye when it comes to the heart. I feel it is not just a pump and that it's other purposes are energetic and spiritual in nature. Long story short, check out some information below expanding more on this topic for your own interest or leisure. It's fascinating stuff :)

    I feel that we are perhaps more than what we think we are and we are only just beginning to scratch the surface but hey, everyone has their own journey.

    I try to keep an open mind, and explore all avenues and let my heart decide if something feels right or not. Intuition is truly powerful in my humble view on this.

    Anyway, just my two cents mate, you can always do your own research and come to your own conclusions.

  11. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I don't think that humans are built with an appreciation for the scale of the universe or the time of it all. Really we're just very insignificant motes in the whole scheme of it.


    We're living in a very special time in that we can start to appreciate the grandeur and emptiness of it all, something we won't be able to do in the future.
  12. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I don't know about hidden messages. It's very easy to get caught up in retrospectively tying up religions, but I'm not sure how useful it is. The basics to me from transcendental interpretations of Jesus, Buddha, Sufism et al is that we should break our programming to create more options for our behaviour (or freedom, if you like) and that mysticism, divine communion or whatever you want to call it is a personal journey that you don't need priests for.

    Another common trope is the idea of everything coming from nothing, that void is the ultimate expression of the divine. You see this in Taoism and Qabala on a cosmic scale, and Hinduism, Buddhism and Sufism on a personal level. Having peeled back the masks of a few gods myself, I am pretty certain that these ideas do not reflect some kind of cosmic truth, but are the product of great introspection. The faces of gods are our own faces looking back at us from places in us we rarely venture, and behind them lies nothing.

    "I am God, and all other gods are my imagery. I gave birth to myself. I am millions of forms excreating; eternal; and nothing exists except through me; yet I am not them they serve me."

    - Austin Osman Spare

    Yeah, sorry, I was being literal. As in, literally cut my heart out and you won't find much intelligence, even though I would struggle to get through the day without it.

    Cool. Personally that heart stuff you linked to looks like pseudo-science gobbledegook to me, but whatever floats your boat :)

    A couple of points about it - as well as other organs being associated with mental faculties like emotion such as the liver, the heart was believed not to be just the seat of emotion, but reason too. Apparently because when people cut up corpses they noticed all the nerves going to the solar plexus so thought it was generally important. I think the head/heart distinction is fairly modern, and not universal across cultures. The other point was about them reducing chaos in the brain; the brain thrives on chaos! You know what a brain operating in perfect unison is? A grand mal seizure.
  13. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    We don't have the mental capacity for cosmic scales.

    If we ever meet beings that operate on those levels it would be like watching someone try to explain their favourite novel to an ant colony. They won't get the slightest gist of the plot or characters no matter how hard you try to explain it.
  14. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Hey, I thought Aldebaran was blown up by the death star a long time ago! How do they know how big it was?
  15. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    Same thing with the time scales involved in evolution - one of the things I make is a timeline with a toilet paper roll and mark off the appearance of major phylogenetic groups. Helps students understand the whole thing.
  16. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    And even though that is too much for our puny brains to handle, it is not even a speck of dust compared to the scale of the universe.

    Hey, did you read that we got the number of galaxies wrong by a factor of 10?
  17. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    It's insanity - but life on earth has existed for an appreciable fraction of the existence of the universe. 20% ain't bad.
  18. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yeah, if dem boffins gone done their sums right :p
  19. Endolphins

    Endolphins Valued Member

    Wow, it's so refreshing to see these kinds of ideas and perceptions. I pretty much feel the same way about God or higher power, spirit, infinite consciousness or whatever cultures and peoples have called it throughout history or 'his story'; that it is within us and really is us and vice versa on many different levels.

    Some ancient cultures have suggested that who we really are is infinite awareness/consciousness having an experience across the limitless expressions of the Void made manifest as almost like a ''simulation'' or what the Aztecs called ''maya'', what the Aboriginals called waking life - ''Dreamtime'', that is, the 'physical' world we're experiencing. So hence, Void and illusion. Nothing and Everything. Like silence; then all of a sudden, for example, words are spoken, and they could be anything, sprung forth from the previously experienced void of silence into an infinite possibility of experience.

    If we really are infinite possibility having collective/individual experiences through the lens of the body/mind (biological computers) according to the ancients, it would make sense that ''everything and nothing'' would exist simultaneously, otherwise this would not be an expression of infinite possibility. Seems paradoxical, but I guess that's par for the course as there is still so much more to know :p

    Also interestingly enough, sciences like quantum physics are showing that atoms are mostly empty space and that there is no actual separation on an energetic level as, behind the surface level of things as we know them, physicality; what we see with our limited five senses can apparently only pick up a very minute frequency band within the entire electromagnetic spectrum. A fraction of a fraction within a great expanse. It's almost as if we're blind, in a way on this level, which I find is very interesting.

    The ideas you've just shared, linking that trope you mentioned to Hinduism, Buddhism etc is another example of finding recurring patterns amidst other things and that to me is awareness. Awareness of the true Self beyond illusion, hinted at and suggested in may texts and sources of information, both ancient and modern and I agree, it's a deeply personal journey and there are no ''good'' or ''bad'' answers, ''right'' or ''wrong'', only growth from the adventures of many different perception through this thing we call here and now, life, love and everything inbetween ad infinitum. Then there is all of that making up the collective expression too but it just keeps going, kind of like fractals. Where does it start and where does it end? Like a drop in the ocean.

    Regarding the term 'pseudoscience', I think it was Einstein who said, ''Try investigation before condemnation and you may be quite surprised''. paraphrased by the way. Lol

    So yeah, once again, you don't have to believe anything I say here, you guys seem like an open minded forum. I always believed in taking something for checking, in other words, proving it to myself so I can learn it personally and discover it for myself, whatever ''it'' may be. I know words can be very limiting sometimes to express what the spirit or soul or the heart wants to express but all these darned filters mate. Lol I guess we work with what we have and go from there yeah ;)

    But I guess, like a plant, we eventually find our own way, growing towards our own light or darkness within ourselves, free from the confines of religion or other perception controlling institutions of this world or not. To each his or her own after all!

    Am still learning myself, I'm no expert, and I'll be the first to admit I know nothing. No-thing. Nowhere. Now-here.

    I'll end this with a interesting quote I came across, ''In this world, but not of it''.

    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
  20. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I dunno man, my explorations have led me to believe that it is all a lot simpler than that. The funny thing is how strongly minds tend to resist simple explanations, especially when one's very existence is involved. Things feel like they must take on epic proportions, or at least have some kind of objective meaning to them.

    The concept of illusion makes sense in the fact that all of observable reality is created in our heads as we perceive it, but even though the idea of some kind of way of finding salvation beyond the illusion is appealing, I don't see any evidence for it.

    I don't think of mystic techniques as unlocking some kind of hidden potential long buried within humans, but more as a skill set for exploring one's mind and auto-conditioning. I essentially believe in behaviourism, but with the distinction that we have the capacity to enact conditioning on ourselves (we do it to varying degrees of success all the time, but not often with the big things we feel define us, nor often with any kind of overarching plan), and that is about as close to free will as we'll get in our present physical form. The very act of looking deep into oneself changes the way your brain works, and tends to up the game of your unconscious. Looking for God? He'll turn up eventually. Radio messages from the Martians? "Coming in, Mars Sector 6". And the best thing is it will always happen in such a way as you will swear blind that there is no way it could be a product of your imagination.

    The brain is an amazing thing. It has worlds within worlds in it, so it is easy to get lost in there :)

    So there is no "true self" as far as I've found. Only masks with nothing behind them. At the heart of us is void, the eye of the storm. "I" is the illusion, not everything surrounding it. It's an easy trap to fall into though, as we are very egocentric apes.

    As for the heart stuff, I'd like to read the study where they decoded the electromagnetic language of the heart; what journal can I find it in?

    One last thing: Dreamtime is the place alongside our world where all the ancestors live together, it's not the name for waking reality.

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