Japanese martial arts VS Chinese martial arts

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by JediKnight25, May 21, 2006.

  1. TigerKai

    TigerKai Valued Member

    Sorry, fixed it. I thought I had all three in there.

    I know that, but combine that type of ability with someone that has iron conditioning and wants to kill you. I've no idea if the man in the clip conditions himself in iron chi kung. Another hypothetical scenario, but very possible. I train iron chi kung and I'm more physically powerful and just as fast if not a bit faster than the man in the clip. My record for kicking is 3 fully chambered (with my shoe returning to the floor between each) front snap kicks to groin level (using the instep) in 1 second. My average is 0.364 seconds for each kick. My punches are faster but I haven't timed them. I was training with no shadow kick and tendon/hip relaxation exercises to prep for that experiment.
  2. Bil Gee

    Bil Gee Thug

    Video please.
  3. kmguy8

    kmguy8 Not Sin Binned

    oh yes.. because if you combine it with iron conditioning...then of course....

  4. TigerKai

    TigerKai Valued Member

    I'll try my best to post it for you guys. I have a digital camera that has an mpg option, so it should work? However, can I just pop it into the manage attachments button in the thread or will the file be too big? Do I need to upload it into a website and link it? If so, what site?
  5. kmguy8

    kmguy8 Not Sin Binned

    actually morgan (sorry can't bring myself to address you as sifu)
    i have been pretty polite to you
    sorry I made the comment I thought you would get wasted in a cage
    based on the drivel I have read from you in this post...
    i stand by that opinion
    but since I have never trained with you
    it's possible your physical abilities surpass your mental ones

    oppss.. there I go again.... ok.. I'll try to stop that

    look man.. I told you for your own benefit that you were ruining your rep here by stating things that were insane to any accomplished MAs here..

    you have ruined yourself and your ability to be respected in this thread..
    that is all I really said...
    sadly, nothing you have said.. can be countered more effectivly than my last post...
    it should be simple enough for you to understand
    you are painting with a brush so wide it covers too much
    you speak in generalisations that are meaningless
    and you defend these positions even when it has been proven untenable
    can't you see this?
  6. kmguy8

    kmguy8 Not Sin Binned

    youtube, google video, rapidshare, etc...
    or if you need it email it to me and I'll post on my server for you
  7. goju-aiki

    goju-aiki New Member

    Erm.. I dun understand why you posted how fast u can kick or punch. Well I just tried, I managed 4 front fully chamber snap kicks in a sec. But hey I am a smaller man so I guess thatz why I am a little faster. :)

    I dunno how long you have trained in tie bu shan, which is the correct chinese term for what you are learning, but I think the monks in Shaolin temple took a very long time to master them, and they train everyday. And from what I have seen there is also the the iron head and the iron arms. The only reason why these monks dun cross train to the point where they are iron everything is becos it is simply takes too long to train all the parts, thatz why they concentrate only on one. There are similar forms of traing this in Muay Thai, and Karate as well. Both involve different sort of training. Which one is more effective, that I don't know. Seems to me all are just as good for the practitioners.
  8. TigerKai

    TigerKai Valued Member

    I posted them knowing they would offend a Karate person. I realized that. I wanted someone to get into a heated yet impersonal discussion and debate about differences between karate and kung fu. I did it to provoke a swift debate because it is like that in my area.

    When someone posted that Goju Ryu wasn't like that I believed him and said it was awesome. I know there is more to Karate than the people that make fools of themselves in my area show and I wanted you guys to explain why they are messed up from what the real thing might be.

    The info I posted about chi and ging might differ from standard interpretations of chi but I believe these are of real value and are seldom seen in fighting. I posted them with the intentions of helping someone along in their art, whichever it may be.

    The reason I started teaching in a studio, at the college and promoting my style was primarily to help kids, particularly teens that are trying to figure their life out. I enjoy helping older people too and it is a great bonus to work with training fighters and try to give them an edge for MMA competition.

    I know I've gotten out of hand because I felt I was being banged all around like a pinata at a frat party. I'm very sorry for being insulting or personal guys.
    Last edited: May 28, 2006
  9. Shen Yin

    Shen Yin Sanda/Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    Okay, Morgan, let me cut you off at the pass here.
    I've been reading the majority of your posts within this thread so far and I have to say that much of what you're throwing out seems to be based on insecure ignorance.

    Now before you go all batty on me, let me state my case first.

    I have a bit of a 50/50 rep on this forum right now. Half the trouble seems to be with Chinese Martial Artists and the other half seems to stem from philosophical stances that I go by. The biggest thing that we as CMA'ists need to overcome greatly are these ideals of us being better than them, and fantastical techniques that only exist within any form of Kung Fu and nowhere else.

    The video "evidence" that you've given at this moment is footage of forms, nothing more. They don't make the performers any more or less credible as fighters, really. And in doing this, you haven't provided any concrete evidence to support what you're saying as of yet [regarding superiority]. Some things I agree with from you, but most are really way out of line withing the realm of reality.

    First and foremost: CMA's do not and should not have a label nor a description of techniques in any stylized form. They are not based on circular or linear movements, but at the same time they are. CMA's, in their most naturalistic form are combative forms of scientific contradiction. Only when certain specialized concepts are organized, compiled and expressed from then on, can they be "labeled" as a specific style, concept or system.

    At their conceptual core, CMAs can be pointed out through accurate forms of alignment, breath control, applied conditioning of offensive/defensive tools and adaptation to all situations and evolutions.

    At least, this is the proposed definition.

    I've personally practiced w/ Goju Ryu experts and had one friend note that I seemed quite linear in my approaches in certain situations. But this was basically my background; considering previous definitions of what CMA's are (being primarily 'circular' in nature), this alone nullifies that point.

    Secondly: I believe that maybe you need some serious experience with outside practitioners who are competent with other systems. It's easy to claim victories over certain styles if their representatives aren't the best examples to begin with. I'm more than positive that if the situation had been different, provided by competent practitioners, so would be your views on them.

    Lastly: If you aim to help solve some of the problems w/ CMAs, then pressure testing your training methods under frequent sparring sessions is what's called for. Muscular fitness, endurance, live practice...much of this is lost within our ideals now and very few are aiming to reverse this flow as it is today.

    Simply, beating the hell out of one another on a regular basis. Which will help improve and reveal what works and what doesn't in every given situation.

    These aforementioned factors are reasons why MMAists and BJJ fighters prove to be superior in many areas of competitions and unsanctioned fights. And quite a few people other than myself have obviously witnessed these occurances, for which you seem to so conveniently ignore.

    The ever so superior, banned counter techniques that you speak of in regards to ground fighting aren't as crucial as you may think. Yes, this is coming from my own experience in the field. In order to counter the techniques, you need to understand the nature of them. Not theorize and hypothesize based on watching UFC and Pride matches.

    'Guess I've said my fill...for now.
  10. TigerKai

    TigerKai Valued Member

    I agree with most of what you said but I've trained a bit with BJJ guys and know that many of the setups leave you staring at vitals because they don't have to worry about protecting them in an MMA event. But BJJ is great and does OWN MMA competitions as you said.

    MMA Competition = ground & pound recommended (BJJ)

    Streetfighting = stand-up striking recommended (muay thai, kung fu, karate, kickboxing, etc.)

    The very title of this thread JMA VS. CMA seems to provoke many of us, maybe that is the problem. I entered this thread feeling that I had to prove the effectiveness of CMA vs JMA when we really should just discuss different arts. I agree, the many styles of kung fu and JMA are too broad to define because different styles highlight different aspects of fighting.
  11. kmguy8

    kmguy8 Not Sin Binned

    i can see your point about sport BJJ.. i remind you that in the forst UFCs.. groin strikes and throat strikes were legal.....
    don't judge BJJ based on assumptions like that one....
    BJJ can cover those areas and can adapt based on the rules....
    glad to see you've toned it down a bit..... that's big of you...
    wins some points with me anyway, that's assuming you give a ____
  12. TigerKai

    TigerKai Valued Member

    I do care. I don't mind people disagreeing with me but If I'm not taken seriously there is no point for me to discuss anything on MAP. It strips away the power of my statements even if I have something great to post.
  13. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher


    Ditto on all points. And a q:
    I know you're in NYC. Which Goju folks (and branch) have you worked with. I have some good martial friends in the Portchester area who rep Goju quite well and was wondering if there might be some cross over.


    I think you need to understand that until you meet some people who can vouch for you, your only proof of your skill is through your words. That's the way of the internet. And if you come making big statements, presenting flawed arguements, and in general looking down on other systems and approaches, then you're going to have problems.

    Just like you're techniques need to demonstrate kung fu in the kwoon and on the street, your text needs to demonstrate it here on the forum.

    May of us have yet to really see it. And so your judged accordingly. That's the fact of this particular environment. Put a different way, in order for us to accept your opinion, you need to demonstrate that you can form a coherent one. And that burden of proof is on you, not us.

    - Matt
    Last edited: May 28, 2006
  14. Shen Yin

    Shen Yin Sanda/Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    Well the "friend" that I was referring to is a one of two sons from Sensei Hymann's school. It's located around the E. 120th st., 3rd Av. area; 'round Spanish Harlem.
  15. TigerKai

    TigerKai Valued Member

    Here's a useful link for the ATP/Chi connection.


    There are dozens more, many of which are scientific journals that state the same evidence without using the word chi.

    ATP production is drastically improved with muscle relaxation and oxygen supply. Hmm... so is chi flow.
  16. Mr Punch

    Mr Punch Homicidal puppet

    I just wanted to jump back into this thread before it gets locked.

    Way back on page 2 I got up on the wrong side of bed and grumped on about some of the misconceptions of Japanese vs Chinese MA... then I looked back on it and thought I was being a bit harsh as nobody had been too stridently mis-stating the cases by then... but then I thought, what the hell, this thread is gonna full of it in a very short time.

    So now, I'd like to congratulate 'Sifu' Morgan! I'm a big fan I must admit! I've laughed long and loud at just about everything you've said, and have even saved your posts to my HD to savour at leisure. I'm a wannabe writer, but I don't think I could come up with this... satire at it's finest!

    Gangrel Childe, how come you didn't accuse this clown of working for Bullshido... he's far more talented than me!
  17. TigerKai

    TigerKai Valued Member

    Good, most likely because of the wealth of new info provided in my chi/ging explanation which I'm sure you've attempted by now. Hopefully you can coordinate them together. Contact me if you have any questions and good luck!
  18. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor

    Well...then I think you know what to do.

    I have yet to see you post something great.
  19. MadMonk108

    MadMonk108 JKD/Kali Instructor

    Because none of us would ever stoop to being this sacriligious.
  20. Mr Punch

    Mr Punch Homicidal puppet

    LOL :D Now that's pretty funny too!

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