Japanese martial arts VS Chinese martial arts

Yes it is. I once had an instructor tell me martial arts is about honesty and it stuck with me. And I don't mean honesty in the sense of "I cannot tell a lie," but more honesty in how you deal with something. Something similiar to something I heard Teddy Atlas say specifically about boxing in that the truth is revealed to you very quickly in the ring. This is a good point you make I have been thinking a lot on this subject recently.

 

I can agree with that. Martial arts is ALL about being honest with yourself and being humble. Without those two qualities, you will never come to your full potential (as far as pure technique goes).

 

Are you for real?

 

Yes Yohan, to say that someone is humble is probably the best way to put it. A lot of people will talk about someone becoming this extraordinary individual with little or no faults after some training. I find these beliefs to be far fetched, but anyone who has ever done some hard sparring against individuals of higher skill knows what I mean by the phrase, "being humbled." So in a less dramatic way than the often "hollywood" view point of things you will become better.

 

And you know this based on how much experience with Tai Chi Chuan

 

Absolutely. Humility plays a big part into my training. You have to be humble enough about your technique to admit to yourself that you need to slow things down and relax so that you can improve your skill sets. You have to be humble enough to realize that just going to class and participating isn't enough to allow you to reach your full potential. Etc.

 

Repeated face punching goes a long way to instilling humility in someone.

 

Plenty. The statement is not only based on my own knowledge but that of various masters I've trained under who knew tai chi such as Huang Xiao Dong, Yang Jwing Ming, Kay Chi Leung, Lin Lin Harn, Liang Shou You and to a lesser degree some others, all of whom I'm sure have far more tai chi knowledge than you. The general concensus, classical thinking, and simple truth of the matter is that internal and external styles are simply two different roads leading to the same place. The internal styles train chi first then li then jing and finally fa jing whereas the external styles begin with li then chi then jing and fa jing. Properly and completely taught shaolin has as much internal training as tai chi and tai chi properly and completly taught has as much external training as shaolin. Now I'm sure the guy who created tai chi honestly believed that he created the greatest art ever when he named it grand ultimate fist, but I'm equally sure that the practitioners of shaolin and all other arts that were around at that time disagreed. Since all of those arts have continued to be practised, preserved, and passed down and many knew arts have been born I would bet my life that tai chi has at no time ever proven it self worthy of the name.

 

Japanese/Okinawan arts are mostly robotic linear motion. Punches from the hip are not practical at all.

Kung fu is circular, much more powerful, and difficult to master.

If you have two combatants of equal ability, the kung fu guy wins in about 6 seconds or less because most kung fu blocks and strikes counter karate punches. Karate people throw out perfect opportunities for trapping and breaking, deep low stances are slow. Even the obese karate guy that killed bulls would be a joke in a fight because the styles clash so much.

Karate is a poor imitation of kung fu. Tae Kwon Do is also a joke.

Don't get me wrong, there are some outright ridiculous kung fu styles too, but karate is a complete waste of time for self-defense. A common street fighter can easily own a mid-rank karate person.

Some standout Kung fu styles are wing chun, a few tiger systems, jeet kune do, mantis, shaolin, and choy la fut

Shaolin fighting monk vs. Karate Sensei = handicapped Karate guy

 

WOW!

 

Not necessarily... there are plenty of Chinese arts that specialize in punching, or kicking, or grappling....throwing etc... its just that some of the concepts are different from the japanese styles

 

Well now I know how I got stuck with the blanket statement of being a CMA elitest/snob/royal asshat... Thanks for mortaring up the wall some serious people have been trying to break down. I'd like to know why it is you think mantis, JKD, Tiger, WC and the broad subset of Shaolin are sooo uber badass. Get off your stylized high ground and realize no one style is better than another.. You shame all of us dedicated CMA players that are trying to move further away from the elitest image that the community thinks we have.

You don't speak for me. You don't speak for my style.. you speak for yourself and thats it. I'll be damned if I get lumped in with the same upturned nose snobbery you've just spouted off.

 

Internal vs external is a silly question. Its like saying whats better - empty hand vs weapon systems? Then comparing eskrima with kung fu. One art starts with weapons and then progesses to empty hand whilst the other only teachs weapons when the student has learnt the basics of unarmed combat. But in the end each end in the same place with the weapon, be it a knife, staff or fist, being used naturally and effectively.

In the same way a good style is both external and internal, even if the training methodologies differ the end goal is the same. A purely external or a purely internal system is an IMPOSSIBILITY!

 

Why would you want to lie and be kind about a comparison between kung fu and karate. Unless you are attending a very commercial school that teaches kung fu and karate together, you should know how funny the comparison is.

I'll admit you do get certain benefits from karate: false sense of self-confidence, reduced stress, balance, emotional control, discipline and balance. But certainly not practical self-defense. I don't hate people that practice karate, obviously there are some benefits to it but it is incomparable to a good kung fu.

Even if a karate person is a tremendous athlete, the clash of style will open him up to a barrage of attacks from a smart kung fu fighter.

BJJ is flawed too, the preparation for many of the submissions leaves vital areas open to attack, like the groin. They are trained to fight with utter disregard to illegal area protection. For instance, when stepping over the head for a BJJ arm lock you could rip his testicles out and eat them for breakfast the next day.

 

Didn't Japanese Martial Arts evolve from that of China?

The movements of offensive Japanese Martial Arts often seem like a misrepresentation of that of offensive Chinese systems.

In my experience, offensive Japanese Martial Arts are worthless compared to that of China. Offensive Japanese Martial Arts systems display less knowledge of anatomy. I've heard this so many times (by heard, I mean experienced first hand, as well as heard stories of people wondering why they studies x system for so long): Practitioners of offensive stand-up Japanese Martial Arts go to spar practitioners of offensive Chinese Martial Arts. They find themselves on the ground... a lot. When they ask 'why', the responses is "Because you're too rigid." Take that as you will, I'm not getting into the soft/hard debate, I expect the Chinese/Japanese one will get interesting enough.

...Japan does have brilliant defensive systems, though... but defensive fighting isn't what I'm into, so the Japanese have nothing much to offer me.

Also, the weapons of China seem more 'advanced' to me. If anything, they're more potent. (Come on: Katana versus dual hook swords? XD)

 

Yes they are, they're a brilliant training exercise. They aren't a fighting technique but then again neither are press ups and we still do them! It is true that they are often overused and mistaken for a martial application.

Karate is a superb fighting system that is very very badly taught by the vast majority of schools. A bit like kung fu. Ditto TKD.

'common street fighter'? Damn, wish I knew how they fight, training for self defence would be so much simplier.

'Shoalin fighting monk'? There hasn't been one of them for a few decades. Even if there were such a contest luck would play quite a part!

 

Mostly what happened is that they were poorly mimicked and brought back to Japan to be refined by an armchair Sensei. That is why there is a HUGE visual difference in the presentation.

Some newer Karate styles are ok and operate faster than the very traditional japanese styles.

In my town there have been 3 school of shuri ryu okinawan karate and they have no good fighters. Out of 6 instructors only 2 are mildly obese, 4 are extremely obese with a huge potbelly distended over their black belts.

They do not train intensely and embarassed themselves at a public self-defense demo. The 6th dan operator of this studio fell on his ass when trying a flying side kick and took him 3 tries to break the board. The TKD instructor that is in with them is very lanky and frail, 6'1 tall and about 130lbs, he failed to break a 1/2 pine board behind his head with an axe kick.

They also have several immature black belt children running around. It mainly functions as an exotic babysitting service.

My sifu humiliated one of their instructors in a sparring match. He could not touch Sifu and got ate up and put through a wall.

 

most of the forms, at least from the shuri ryu karate demonstrate the punching from the waist. Then they have another killer strike called a 'concealed punch' where you cover one of the fists resting at your hip with your palm before punching with it.

I know some karate is decent, regular streetfighters throwing haymakers or scrapping throw off karate people that expect something to happen similar to their kata.

 

maybe it is just this school poorly representing karate, but I have been to a karate tournament and all of it was mostly the same stuff. Every encounter in our town with someone in karate was very embarassing for them.

So when I hear someone use the threat "I know Karate!" I just smile.

 

I love it how Karateka are so cocky when they come to our Kwoon. The thing they ALWAYS end up saying, with a look of frustrated confusion, is "How did you do that?" I love it. XD

I have friends who've studied Karate. I get the same question, all the time.

As far as obesity, in the cause of a martial arts instructor, that's just NASTY. No one wants to grab your rolls, and the only reason they wouldn't hit you is because they don't want to have their arm sucked into your fat up to the elbow. When you see a 350 pound MAist, you immediately know how harcore they are, because they obviously have a hardcore physical training system. XD