Izumizu-ha

Izumizu said - "Wow, when I started, all I asked was how much does it cost? I dropped into watch a class, liked what I saw, and started training. It never even occoured to me as a beginner to ask those questions."

You're doing it one hundred percent exactly wrong.

If you go into a dojo and the only question you have is in relation to money then you're in effect saying that money is the sole criteria by which you are judging the dojo.

If you go into a dojo and ask the questions listed by Scott then you show you are judging the dojo based upon solid criteria that will have an immediate and long term effect on the training you might receive.

Doing it your way means you get exactly what you deserve :hammer:

 

Another example of you missing the salient points and retorting with gibberish.

 

Well, back in 92 when I started aikido as a beginner, I was not aware of MAP, and was not aware that one should ask questions. I didn't even know at that time that there were many different styles of aikido. I did know that I wanted to train aikido...I did not know there were a few dojo in my area, one closer to where I live than the one I chose to train at. I only thought there was one because at that time it was the only one listed in the phone book.

So I went. It didn't matter if it cost $50 a month (which is what I paid), or if it cost $600 a month...I was going to do it anyways. I just wanted to know how much to write the check for.

I also didn't have any preconcieved notions of what it was I was looking for, or trying to see if a particular dojo was going to hold up to my standards or litmus test. I wanted to know if I was going to hold up to thier standards and their litmus test...I afterall was the student comming to learn that which I had not known before.

 

what is this? not ask people questions? i talked poor donovan waite's ear off at the sugano memorial seminar at ny aikikai. is that frowned on? because i did it to yamada when he came in for a seminar too. "what was o sensei like?", etc.

 

I was a guest at NYA in 2000 and one of the questions I got asked by the dojo manager Luis, was, what was my grade ?

Funny that innit !

 

And did you ask him what his grade was? Did you ask the student wearing the brown belt if he was an ikkyu or a nikkyu? What about the other blackbelts there, did you ask them if they were second or third dan?

 

You're clutching at straws again.

No matter how much you cling to that weak argument, you'll never make your point.

 

Wasn't ever trying to make a point, Dave. Just merely explaining what I was taught as a part of normal protocol. I just figured that nobody was asking anyone else because of this protocol. Maybe there were some other reasons.

Incedentally, I have never heard of any guest instructors (visiting or seminar) be introduced as, This is Mr. (or Mrs.) John Smith...John and I met about three years ago, and he is a sixth dan and will be teaching class today.

Or this scenario: This is John Smith, he is a third dan from Spain, and has since moved to our city and will be joining our class...

They are usually just introduced by their name. If John Smith wants you to know what rank that he holds, he will tell you himself.

 

Slip, duck, evade, but will he answer the question?

A definate and resounding NO.

 

All fairly standard questions prospective students visiting the Beginners forum here on MAP have been told to ask for years. And I have to say, I've never heard anybody say asking someone about their grade was improper.

 

Izu, you're wasted here mate

A life in politics is your calling, you are physically incapable of answering a question with a straight answer

 

many of the quoted points can be found out via the dojo's website nowadays also. us aikido federation also lists certified instructors on their site.

http://www.aikidomac.org
http://www.usaikifed.com/about/

another chicago-area dojo's about page...
http://www.aikidoshimbokudojo.com/about_dojo_and_instructors.htm

it's the modern world! transparency!

 

I've got to chime in here. Firstly, Izu doesn't want to reveal his rank or identity. We have seen that he is using protocol as an excuse for hiding his rank, etc. But that protocol is not the real reason and this seems fairly obvious.

I say just drop it. I know the temptation is hard but I feel we are beating on a dead horse, as the saying goes.

As for protocol for asking rank... it depends on the context. When I attended a karate seminar years ago, some there knew me and introduced me to others as a 10-year black belt under Higaonna Sensei. While it was true that I graded and received my black belt under Higaonna Sensei, it was not required to state that I started under Chinen Sensei and the majority if not near all my training was under Hartwig Sensei. In fact, I wasn't even at the seminar representing karate, I was there competing and demonstrating under my rank in Kajukenbo. This was just a formal introduction in terms relevant to those around who were mostly all karate.

On the other hand, when I have gone to seminars run by Kaju folks, often if they do not know me, they will test me. Sometimes in the past, folks have come to our school to observe us. If they did not feel we were worthy of the rank, they would call us out. Rank within an organization can be a declaration of an open challenge. I've had senior instructors jump me from behind during seminars to see how well I fair. At the end of a seminar I was told once that I was a black belt, as if the whole time the grand master was testing me to see if I really was enough for my rank.

I even recall one time it was suggested to me behind the scenes that I pair up in training with another black belt. I know now he is my age but at the time I thought him to be much younger (we Asians age well ). Anyway, without having to say it, I tested him out. I was a hard training partner for him. I wanted to make sure he was worth his rank. I don't think he knew what was happening, he really had to work to get things to work. In the end, I think I shook him up enough and I could see that there was great potential and he was very good. In fact, these days he is just awesome, although I only get to see him maybe once or twice a year.

If you want to police the quality of ranks in Aikido... you got to go train with them, test them out. This is to be handled or organized by senior ranks, IME. The bottomline is that I'd rather have someone who I've trained with speak well of me or criticize me than people on the Internet that have neither trained with me or know me.

 

If I ask someone their rank and they won't tell me that reveals as much as I need to know

I wear my ranks proudly and will happily discuss them with anyone

 

Sorry mate but whilst your sentiment is sound enough, I can't let go when I see bad advice and incorrect content being presented as a definitive statement.

I'm quite happy to beat that dead horse.

 

Indeed. It's fairly common for all teachers in martial arts to make potential students aware of their grade. It's not even a practice restricted to martial arts. Doctors drop the Mr or Mrs from their name and replace it with Dr for a reason.

Mr Smith handing out advice on how to deal with piles? What does Mr Smith know? I'd rather just seek the advice of the trained and tested Dr Jones.

 

I guess it is a matter of bragging as well, bragging is looked down on here in the US, and asking someone thier rank is like asking them to go on and brag about themselves.

As for bad advice and incorrect content, you have made your point. All the questions you ask in order to refute what it is I say will gain you the same answer as the first questions you asked me.

It's kind of one of those things that goes like this: seek not to know the answer, but to understand the question...and understand the intent behind the question. This is a game, and I like it.

We can go on for pages about this as well, I'm sure, it is really quite easy. The simple answer is no, I will not tell you, and no I will not tell you.

 

Like I said before, as far as you may be concerned, I have zero experience, zero rank, and zero time in grade...I just woke up one day and had all these ideas and thoughts...given to me by the gods, kind of like tenshin shoden katori shinto ryu...

or wait...maybe my house was robbed and the robbers stole my certificates...you know kind of like what happened to Yong Sul Choi.

In anycase, these ideas and concepts of the martial arts are new and original, devised by me, Izumizu, never heard of before, new in entirety for the martial arts world to understand, or not...aptly formed into my very own ryu...Izumizu Ha.

Since I am the very first to introduce such concepts to you all here on MAP, I welcome you. Since you have never heard of any of the ideas, philosophies, or approaches to the martial arts (I mean, how could you have ever heard them before? I have made them up...nobody has ever said these kinds of things before...), let it be known that the formation of Izumizu Ha has it's origins in both Kami and Goto.

I also meditated atop a mountain (one of the higest in the region I was travelling) and these ideas, new and original, never heard of before in the martial arts world, became crystal clear at the same time as a rainbow streatched from my hand across the oceans.

I look forward to my continued and renewed sharing of my ideas, inventions, concepts, philosophies and approach to the martial arts that are unique, and never heard of before here on MAP, or elsewhere in the universe of martial arts.

Since nothing like this has ever existed before (and none of you have ever been introduced to these concepts, since obviously you wouldn't have ever heard of them prior to me actually making them up), and it is pure and original, I feel that calling it Izumizu Ha is quite appropriate.

 

Izu, it isn't a game. People really were trying to connect with you.

 

Izumizu-san, I'm very intrigued by your martial art. I have read much about its founding in all the martial art magazines and heard great things about it from some senior aikido masters who seemed jealous of what you have developed. Please explain more about this great art.