ITA (International Taekwondo Alliance)

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by ClumsyFoot, Nov 12, 2003.

  1. TheMadhoose

    TheMadhoose Carpe Jugulum

    Im al for motivation and rewarding the kids but when i was a junior learning your pattern and set sparring to get your next grade was incentive enough. a well done or a nice kickin there was more than enough reward. I didnt need a badge to say instructor told me i was doing well
  2. Captain-Kick

    Captain-Kick Valued Member

    it wasnt ITA policy to have tape up to red belt belt. They only have it on there white and yellow belts which is fine for begginners. The instructors in the UK added tape to every rank, No idea why!!!!!
  3. TKDGUY76

    TKDGUY76 Valued Member

    The ITA doesn't do it as a policy, but many ITA schools (mine included) do - for juniors. It's an easy way to keep juniors goal-oriented and understanding what they need to practice, not to mention a great way to remember class to class who knows what. I'm sure that's easy for instructors that have twelve students, but it's a little trickier when you have a staff of instructors and teach 38 classes a week.

    Also, I often build "flex-time" into classes where students who are still working on their forms go in one group while the others do target drills, spar, do one-steps, etc.
  4. Captain-Kick

    Captain-Kick Valued Member


    I ve been reading all your posts and I think you sound a very clever chap! Alot of the things that you say make alot of sense, and this is why I cant understand why you defend the ITA as you do.

    Im just curious, I left the ITA because I fell out with Bert Kollars and when you fall out with him you have no future in the organisation.

    When I first joined the ITA it was the USTA and I loved it and wish they were like that now.

    I would like to have a good discuusion with you on your present thoughts on the ITA, I know you feel loyal to your organisation, but surely you cant endorse all the things they have done.

    One of the things Bert Kollars is very good at is convincing people that he is right and his way is the best way. If you dont agree with him you get told to shut up! This was my experience.

  5. TKDGUY76

    TKDGUY76 Valued Member

    Since you asked, I'll tell you why I'm still with the ITA.

    First, though I'm not always in agreement with every policy, I think part of being in an organization is working towards the change you want from within, unless you come to realize that no matter what, you'll never be within the loop that can initiate change. That may well have been your situation Greenaway, being that you're not even in the same country as the people that make the rules.

    Second, and this is where you and I differ, is loyalty. In 21 years under my instructor, I have never seen him do, say, or recommend anything that wasn't in my best interest without helping me to understand how it benefitted the organization as a whole even if it didn't help me out individually. The reason I defended him is because when I was a club owner with 12 students, he was as willing to pick up the phone and answer my questions as he is now (I've never had to wait more than 12 hours for a return phone call).

    Third, I have seen what else is out there and no thanks. The ITA gives me the opportunity to network with what I believe to be some of the best professional instructors out there, all of whom (all of the ones I network with) are concerned with student quality and well-being first and financial motivations second.

    Yes there are some people in the ITA that I don't particularly get along with (and that's putting it nicely), but GM Kollars and the other members of the board are not those people, so there's no reason for me to leave.

    I've never said that I faulted you for leaving. I don't know your full situation, and don't really care as it's none of my business. My issue is when you get on a board and post sweeping generalization after sweeping generalization.
  6. Captain-Kick

    Captain-Kick Valued Member

    Ok thats fine,

    but before you start questioning my loyalty! Take this on board! My Instructor doesnt and never did give a damn! and still doesnt, when someone from the states comes over he puts on this big show of how great and wonderful things are over here and its all Bull S*it. He hasn't trained regualy in the last 10 -12 years, and things are still no different, I know this because I have lots of friend s in the ITA who keep me up to date. On one occasion he even called on of the Grand Masters a cheeky W*anker in front of all the licencess, because he wanted some sparring gear put aside for him to use. How can anyone respect and stay loyal to someone like that???

    He doesnt care about standards only cares about money and has little or no leadership qualities whatsoever, not to mention his lack of knowledge in the art in general. I personally blame this on the Masters for not keping a vested interest in him, this is the reason why there will be no ITA in the UK shortly. You sound like a reasonable guy and it wasnt my intetion get under your skin and yes all ITA schools are not like that video, (you have to admit though that one is pretty bad) and not a good representation of the ITA.

    I completely agree with you as well there is not much choice either if you wanted to go elsewhere.

    I think over here our situation is very different to yours!

    Best of luck with your school, TKDGUY76, Keep well.

    S Greenaway
  7. TKDGUY76

    TKDGUY76 Valued Member

    As I said, I don't judge those who leave of automatically dislike them.

    I do think if a person's relationship with his instructor is as you describe yours then he should pack his stuff and look for guidance elsewhere.

    As for blaming the "Masters," I would point out that to my knowledge it wasn't the council's idea to put a school in the UK. I do know that the GM who muich of your ire seems to be directed towards is the primary voice of support for the schools in the UK. I don't know your instructor well enough to form an opinion of him, and I'm not so much of a "company man" that I will automatically defend a guy just because he is a member of my organization.

    As you've said, things over there are much different, and many of the benefits available to me aren't as accessible across the pond.

    I do thank you for acknowledging the fact that you may have been a bit overzealous in your condemnation of the ITA as a whole. Best of luck.
  8. AndyTKD

    AndyTKD New Member

    Good to see your still training Mr Greenaway

    I used to train at Portsmouth and got to Decided 2nd, until i noticed it going downhill, the student numbers were dropping and it seemed they were letting students pass testings to encourage them to stay and ending up getting 15-16 year old black belts who were trainee instructors and had no idea how to teach and only knew the moves for the forms and nothing else. That was the main reason i left.

    I am not saying a was better than the others far from it, but there were some at same grade or higher that couldnt do some of the kicks.

    There were however a small number of instructors that did know what they were doing, but it was very rare to be taught by them.

    That was about 5 years ago, so it may have changed.

  9. TKDFitch

    TKDFitch New Member


    Hi Andy,

    Believe me nothing has changed and if anything has got worse! most of the main instructors at the schools are no older than 20 because the older instructors cant be bothered to teach.

    They are so desparate for students that they are throwing all the tenets out of the window and trying to sabbotage other schools in their areas. They are trying to contact students of other instructors and bad mouth them. where is the Honour in that!

    The ITA in the UK is a dieing breed....shame really cause at one time it was great to be part of ...but it has been driven in to the ground by what remains of the senior instructors.
  10. HoAmPacMan

    HoAmPacMan Proud Daddy

    If you feel you are part of a McDojan... Then you need to go somewhere else. I dont care too much about my belt color, I want to progress as I feel I am ready... We have all seen the difference in people that apply themselves, and those that dont. I weant to be one that applies myself.... I feel our school takes time, and offers a lot. Some are probably better, and some are not as good (good being a relative term)
    I am part of the ITA, and proud of it. Our new instructors (about 6 months now) have some good things going. Things that were never addressed before became obsticles they had to overcome.... If you like your instructors, and scholl, stick with it. A black belt does not make you good, just as being a white belt does not mean you are nothing.... Your attitude can make the difference in your school being good, or really good. Again, just my 2 cents....
  11. TKDGUY76

    TKDGUY76 Valued Member


    Don't confuse your problems with one school as being somehow symptomatic of an entire organization. If the school is doing as poorly as you say it is, market forces will take care of it in time. Your beef is apparently with an individual school owner, who you are freely bashing on a forum that he's not a part of. I'm not sure what you folks in the UK call it, but here in the American South we refer to that as chickensh*t. If you want to debate the merits of an organization as a whole, we can certainly do that, but your personal feelings towards Master M and the Portsmouth school should be aired to him and to those in your community, not while you're hiding behind a keyboard.
  12. TKDFitch

    TKDFitch New Member

    LOL!! I have never heard anything so funny, thanks for lightening my day. If you think I am scared of any of the instructors from the UK you are gravely mistaken.

    As for you...I am glad that you are happy being part of such dishonest and back stabbing organization....that is certainly something to be proud of! Whether that type of thing happens in the US or not....the schools over here are trading under the ITA's name and anything they do reflects on the ITA as a whole.
  13. HoAmPacMan

    HoAmPacMan Proud Daddy

    When you were in High School, did every student pass? Did every student achieve excellence? No of corse not... The same thing goes for real life. Not all people excell. Not al teachers teach. Not all students learn. Don't blame the whole organization based on what you have seen from the UK. Everyone knows that there are some shcools that excell. Some probably downright stink. Just because a person is in a leadership position does not mean they can lead. I regret the issues you are having with your school. Here is an example. Last night we went through some of our Ju Jitsu training. Other than that it has been a few days since I have been to class sue to a rotating schedule at work. Well today I get a call from my instructor asking my opinion of last nights class. Then they asked if everything else was OK, and asked if I was going to be at our awards banquet friday night. Some small chit cha later we hung up. Our instructors call me once or twice a month, just to check in, or make sure tings are going ok away from the school.
    I dont know what you call that, but form me & my school, I call it going a step beyond. I have been to 7 different ITA schools (I travel). A few have been more hard work then others, but I have not felt like a number at any of them. I have alwasy been addressed politely, and the atmosphere was good. A few didnt work as hard as I felt they should, and even ours is less active then I would like at times. That is why I work out at home, and stretch at home. I have made MA a part of my life now, and getting to that point took me a long time.
    I wish you the best in your school, and I hope things come around. The example i gave was to primarily let you know that not all schools are equal. Just as no 2 people are exactly the same. Your school might be a rotten apple, but dont let it ruin the whole crop....
  14. TKDGUY76

    TKDGUY76 Valued Member

    Whether you're scared or not, I don't know. I do know that you're making personal attacks in a forum where the individual you are attacking is not a member, so maybe you have a different word for that. Either that or sign your name to your posts and if what you're saying is accurate, you have no resaon to fear legal recourse.

    If you are going to call the ITA "dishonest and back-stabbing," then let's see the evidence. While trash-talking other schools isn't good business and it's not honorable, it certainly isn't backstabbing, and it isn't done by the ITA, but by one of its members. Sure, you can hide behind the theory that because one member of a group does it, they must all do that. There's a term for that sort of thinking as well - ignorance. As I recall it has been used to motivate every hate group since the beginning of time.

    For the record, the ITA is a company -- we school owners, and to a lesser extent our students, are its customers. So you can hardly justify an attack on a company because of the behaviors of one or a few of its customers. As I've said before, if that school in Portsmouth is so bad, then why don't you guys STFU, open a school, and put it out of business?
  15. Captain-Kick

    Captain-Kick Valued Member

    You're dead right, the ITA is a company, I however was not a satisfied customer so I left, my choice. And glad I did!!

    I dont think anyone needs to put the Portsmouth school out of business, the leadership there will do that just fine by themselves.

    Regards SG
  16. TKDGUY76

    TKDGUY76 Valued Member

    Exactly my point. The ITA doesn't exist to be everything to everybody. I would hope your school doesn't either. Unlike the old USTA days with the 25 year license agreements, school owners and students within the ITA decide each year if they want to be a member. So if someone decides to leave, that's fine. I would hardly say it means the ITA is in some type of trouble. It may seem that way to people in some areas, but in others it's booming.
  17. KC21051976

    KC21051976 New Member

    Last edited: Feb 16, 2011
  18. Custom Volusia

    Custom Volusia Valued Member

    This is an OLD what is the huh? to...besides being your first post on the board....
  19. LeoM

    LeoM New Member

    Andy! Sorry, can't find a a way to send a message on this site. Are you the Andy that used to teach ITA TKD at Copnor Road back in 1997? Can't remember what your surname is, used to train with you when I was a novice yeeeeears ago. Used to work with you and Kevin. Went up to see the Olympic TKD at the Excel this last week. Moved away from hants a few years ago. What happened to the ITA Taekwondo Plus organisation in Portsmouth?
  20. TKDJ

    TKDJ New Member

    The words 'business' and 'customer' where a couple of the reasons I left TKD Portsmouth as well.

    I know this post is pretty old but I thought I'd look up my old club in North End after reading through this thread, but I can't seem to find any information on it, has it gone out of business?

    It would be great to know what a few people are up to these days and if they are still training. I left back in 2006/7 for very much similar reasons to above, and possibly a few disagreements with the way things were being run. I only reached decided 1st degree black belt but I still feel I should have been allowed to speak more freely.

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