Is this chi?

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by travelguy90, Jul 20, 2011.

  1. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Wang was a very respected practitioner who was very big on function. He was known for his ability to bring it.Whether there are any films of his doing so is probably doubtful.

    As a history guy who constantly has to weed through the garbage that's around I'll say that from what I've learned of him over the course of the last 30 years or so he's not someone I had doubts about.

    And for what it's worth I'm a wee bit o' a skeptic about a lot of "internal" practitioners!
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Derren soes not say anything other than he is able to tap into a set of responses that the human body does to certain stumuli. He also states that he cannot do it on everyone.

    Furthermore Derren is able to fully explain his methodology if you ask him, No mystery, not mere anecdote he can produce repeatable results using a knwn set of parameters. His NLP stuff is particularly interesting, and if you watch it you can even hear what he is doing.

    This matches the explanation of students "wanting" to please their Instructor, whereas pragamatic style MMA guys just laugh their ass off (see Dillman video for illustration).

    Drills, arrows, spears etc are all parlour tricks. There were "marsmallow gut" carnival types who could do similar tricks.
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I like a lot of what the Wang video shows...some is a bit "hmmm", but there are some very nice mechanics demonstrated. The 3:34 stuff was very interesting. Almost Shuai Jiao-ish in fact.

    Of course if I spoke Chinese i would probably enjoy it more....:)
  4. Putrid

    Putrid Moved on

    Hannibal wrote
    So does tai chi.The form is driven by the mind.Putting the mind into certain parts of the body will induce other parts to move.Its a very strange feeling,almost as if someone else is moving you.Its possible that Derren has tapped into this mechanism and by drawing the persons attention to a specific area induces unconscious movement in another area.Whilst the biomechanics of tai chi are almost identical to a lot of other martial arts the method of driving them is different.
  5. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    This ties in with my "tensegrity" view of chi
  6. Putrid

    Putrid Moved on

    Would it have anything to do with the fascia? Something is driving the movement and it certainly isn't chi.The advice given is to pay little attention to the chi feelings as they aren't important.
  7. Taiji_Lou

    Taiji_Lou Banned Banned

    It's people like Doc. Fruitcake and his magical mercury that give energy a bad rap.

    The no hands push hands thing is real, it works, and it's not a "trick". The person being thrown has accepted your friend request, and is allowing you to demonstrate the technique. It doesn't mean you didn't just beat him at push hands, either. Cuz i can only do it when I've clearly dominated in a friendly push hands.

    Alls you do is beat your underling at push hands, and give a little fa jing. Then your yang energy follows their yin energy, and your yin energy leads their yang. It's that simple. Then you just follow their balance and guide it borrowing energy when neccessary and then you gather, redirect, and then when the moment is right you send em flying. It's really fun to do and really neat to watch. It looks like they're a puppet of the puppet master.
  8. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    So in other words a trick
  9. furtom

    furtom New Member

    Fan of Rick Barrett?
  10. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    [ame=""]Combat Tai Chi - YouTube[/ame]

    I'm gonna stick this in the "bad MA videos" thread
  11. Putrid

    Putrid Moved on

    I think I would stick it in bad martial arts threads.Its just over-hyped marketing nonsense to make the instructor look good and sell DVDs, but that could also apply to the self protection/RBSD industry as well.
  12. Taiji_Lou

    Taiji_Lou Banned Banned

    If ch'i isn't real then why do you scream when you hit and kick? To release more energy. Right?
  13. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I don't scream when I hit, nor do boxers, nor does anyone who can actually punch- so you are talking crap

    Once again you spectacularly miss the whole point being made - what you call "chi" is an outmoded term to describe a combination of timing, skill and correct alignment. The phenomena associated with chi can all be duplicated by "non-chi" methods

    Occams Razor Lou - look it up
  14. AndrewTheAndroid

    AndrewTheAndroid A hero for fun.

    I can't believe this thread has made it to 40 pages. How far can it go?
  15. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    It proves perpetual motion actually exists that's for damn sure!!!
  16. Putrid

    Putrid Moved on

    Barking rather than screaming is a very effective way of increasing both speed and power in strikes as it helps unify the mass.See Mr Morris's article on his blog.

    [ame=""]Boxer dog barking at geese - YouTube[/ame]
  17. AndrewTheAndroid

    AndrewTheAndroid A hero for fun.

    Or is it running on Chi?
  18. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Or is it more likely that, unlike those who claim it's magic or mystical, Derren Brown is doing exactly what he claims to do and using psychology and stage magician tricks in order to do it, and those claiming it is unspecified magic are using the same tricks, but presenting it differently?

    Actually what Brown does is commonly considered science - specifically branches of psychology combined with some stage magician trickery. That's how he describes it as well.

    He talks about the mind, but he can clearly describe his methodology, reproduce his results upon command, and doesn't pretend to any supernatural powers.

    Yep. Seeing evidence, I am willing to accept that he does what he claims to do. I'm also willing to take his explanations over 'magic' as an explanation.

    No, one area claims to be scientifically inconclusive and mystical (yours) without producing any evidence that it is so. Meanwhile the other area states quite clearly that there are definite principles at work which people can understand - and replicate. There is no pretense at anything supernatural or magical at play. The fact that someone can perform the same tricks without resorting to 'magic' suggests that they are not magic.

    So it is possible that Derren is not, in fact, doing exactly what he claims (trickery of various sorts) and is instead unknowingly using magic? You're stretching a little here.

    No - to tense the diaphragm, which is an instinctive action to help promote good body mechanics. It's the same reason weight lifters grunt as they lift something heavy - gives you a little boost in strength and power as the diaphragm tenses. Again - no magic involved.
  19. Putrid

    Putrid Moved on

    Lilbunnyrabbit wrote
    So it is possible that Derren is not, in fact, doing exactly what he claims (trickery of various sorts) and is instead unknowingly using magic? You're stretching a little here.[/quote]

    I wouldn't call it magic.Such things are definately repeatable provided you have a teaching method.
  20. CosmicFish

    CosmicFish Aleprechaunist

    Some links for you, Lou. I'll paraphrase the arguments I think you're making here. Please feel free to correct me if you think my paraphrasing misrepresents your position:

    "Screaming when hitting and kicking releases chi, therefore, if you scream when you hit and kick it is evidence of chi."
    - You've assumed that chi exists and then quoted an example as providing proof of chi's existence.

    "Screaming when you hit and kick releases more energy, this energy is chi."
    - Just because screaming can cause you to hit and kick harder, it does not follow that this energy must come from chi.

    "The extra energy you release when you scream whilst hitting and kicking cannot be accounted for by ordinary physical means, therefore we must assume the extra energy is provided by chi."
    - Assuming the existence of a supernatural form of energy to account for greater force when hitting and kicking is not parsimonious.'s_razor

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