is kung fu for self defence or killing?

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by Hatori Banzo, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    While I also want the answer to that, that isn't enough.......

    I want to know how many people your instructor has killed in this manner.

    Or students of his........

    Or his teachers............

    Actually, I would love to know the last time anyone in the world was killed specifically like this. Seriously, where are the stats? How many people in the entire world have died by a deer antler blade to the throat in mortal combat in the last 10 years? :confused:


    What a bunch of ridiculous machismo nonsense.:rolleyes: I hate to sound harsh, but this is one of the most ridiculous things I have read on a MA forum in a long time.:jawdrop:

    No, it isn't normal or common. Not even remotely.
     
  2. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    That association of the main branches w/religious centers is generally jive. Bone up on real history, you'll see. You'll also see that much descends from military guys or revolutionary societies.Not exactly priestly types at any rate.

    No,it doesn't.Unless you think something such as the gung fu of painting would mean self defense.It's a term which some southern Chinese began to apply in place of Wu Shu.As in "You should see his gung fu" (when meaning his gung fu of martial ability).As the majority of the Chinese who went to the western hemisphere in years past were southerners they took the term with them.If it had been mostly northerners the world today would refer to CMAs by the correct term, Wu Shu.


    While Wu Shu = the correct term for CMAs,and means martial technique,not martial art,unfortunately the performance art of modern Wu Shu is what most westerners think of when they hear the term. To be honest it's the first thing that springs to my mind with gymnastic alacrity when I hear those words. Uh oh- I ripped my synaptic silks.

    Got somethin' against T'ai Chi killers?:yeleyes:

    Whatcha think those swords are for? Part of sword training is to develop sha ch'i-killing energy. Which would be more akin to killing attitude than anything to do with meridians or something.OK,you pays your money,you takes your chances.So that'll be $5 for that indoor secret.


    Seriously,to the OP-originally most CMAs were mainly about weapons.Which pretty much means they were about killing during that period.Even then,outside of war/caravan guarding and the like you won't find many of the known practitioners in the 1800s and on killing people in matches or even incidences of self defense. China had laws about killing people.

    Leaving aside the specific weapon mentioned I see his point,if you do all that training but can't do what may need to be done when it hits the fan...yeah,if that's what you were training for I guess you did waste your time. One of my history teachers told of guys next to him in combat in WWII who couldn't pull the trigger even when being charged. Some folks just can't even after being seriously trained for the express purpose of killing.I hope your teacher is running a boot camp if he expects all his students to be able to kill as easily as snapping their fingers tho'.

    What the heck does this mean? The so called "warrior philosophy" is about bullying people in the everyday world? Whose "warrior philosophy"?



    I went to the drive in when that came out.I watched it. I should have just crawled into the back seat with my girl.Which is my advice to all our dear readers as regards most MA flicks.

    That'll be another $5.
     
  3. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    (My bold.)

    To scald a weak individual, you need to be armed with a kettle of recently-boiled water, or alternatively with a mug containing a hot beverage. (It must be REALLY hot though.)

    A deer antler blade may be your instructor's sidearm of choice, but it won't scald anyone.
     
  4. Wildlings

    Wildlings Baguette Jouster

    Now that just came to my mind...how are you supposed to keep a deer antler handy? Is it because t3h d34dly train in the woods?
    And why is the antler any better that a bull's horn or a practical hand-axe?
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2013
  5. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    I've no i-deer.

    Ba-boom! :D
     
  6. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    Staggering...

    You need to Buck your ideas up old Fallow.

    :D
     
  7. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    Doe! We're getting in a rut here.

    ;)
     
  8. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    Our Hart's just not in it.
     
  9. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    Roe deer, roe deer, roe deer!
     
  10. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    As an instructor I encourage students to use force up to and including deadly force if their own life was in danger and there was no way to escape the situation.

    Try this thought experiment - imagine that you are faced by an attacker. Think about what are you prepared to do to protect yourself? What level of force would you start with? What would make you escalate?

    Now imagine that someone you care about is faced by an attacker. Think about what you are prepared to do to protect them? Is it the same or is it different from how you would defend yourself?

    I believe that as an instructor it is important to stress that an individual has a right to protect themselves but this does not mean that you should be casual or enthusiastic about the prospect of killing.
     
  11. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Tom, what you say above is a reasonable approach and similar to how my school approaches it.

    Which is very different from scorning people who haven't killed other people with deer horn blades to the throat.
     
  12. Wildlings

    Wildlings Baguette Jouster

    People, I think I've found the truth!


    Is the instructor of the glorious Baratheon family? :D
     

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  13. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    how exactly do you teach deadly force? you actually encourage using deadly force?
     
  14. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    I only teach adults. I encourage students to defend themselves if they cannot escape a violent situation. I remind them that they have the right to use deadly force if they believe that it is necessary at the time. I teach techniques that have the potential to cause death. I ensure that my students understand how to apply these techniques and are aware of the potential outcome.

    In this sense I do encourage students to use deadly force when they think it appropriate.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2013
  15. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    unreal. just unreal.
     
  16. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Please expand on what you mean by this comment.
     
  17. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Do you do drills with them so that they can explore their thoughts and responses to these types of things?

    It's all very well saying "you have the right if you feel it is appropriate" but most people aren't truly going to be able to gauge things at that level of severity or even be able to distinguish what type of danger they are facing.

    They could make a mistake either way.
     
  18. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    How about:

    How do you know the technique is deadly?

    How do you know the student will be able to perform the technique with enough force for it to be deadly?

    How do you practice deadly techniques with enough force against a resisting opponent to know that your student has those skills?

    In BJJ I have choked people unconscious who were resisting with all their skills, within the limits of rolling. To kill someone all I have to do is hold the choke longer, like until they stop breathing. Even with all this I consider it to be a far cry from being able to pull this off in a fight .
     
  19. Rand86

    Rand86 likes to butt heads

    Are we still talking about deer?

    'cause I've got a doozy...

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Also do you do anything to assist or equip them for when they do step over that line and change their life completely by taking another's?
     

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