Is kempo really a good self defense?

Floorismyfriend

If you are respectful you are more than welcome to visit our dojo which is about 30 minutes north of Miami. Check out www.foxdojo.com

 

what the hell is a div?

but i'd have to disagree with the statement that success in mma doesn't translate to success on the street. that's like saying training does nothing for you, you can't prepare at all for streetfights, and that on the street, everyone is equal. this isn't true. success in mma doesn't guarantee success on the street (which i can tell you from experience ), but a good mma fighter is leagues above your average drunkard.

 

A Div is aword for a total pratt, an idiot, a fool, a twit etc
You see the connection?

 

muchas gracias.

ok, you're a bit of a div, flooris.

 

kenpo self defence

hi totality,this is not what im implying,all i am doing is helping the lad understand betwen mma nhb and street, and there is a massive difference,im not saying one does not give sucsess in anothere,just helping him understand there is no glory in street,just pain,and you do not have a ref to judge or stop the fight ,i train in othere styles,i have done full contact ,and mma on a amature level,but i understand the difference,so do you ,obviosly he does not.i teach kenpo karate/jitsu,but i also teach my own kenpo fighting system,one it taylored to the street,the othere is more mma.i dont agree with tha term no hold bared ,because we all now that you cant use numerous strikes in any of them ,whitch is not no holds bared,as nhb would be anything goes ,
cheers
matt

 

Re: kenpo self defence

Wow I am gone for 2 days and this thread blew up.
True that eye gouging is illegal in NHB. But what better way is there to prepare youself from an unarmed attacker than gaining some experience in NHB. Sure you could buy youself a fully automatic assault rifle, but wait isnt that illegal in england. Matsloth I am sorry i got you so mad but it just a discussion man. Lighten up and have a cookie. I especially like those oreo cookies.

 

-The only reason I feel a need to reply to basically useless thread topics like this is to try to preserve somewhat of a positive image for MMA practitioners among the posters on this board. There are so many young kids who lack any real experience that act like mindless fans of NHB and MMA that post here that give a real negative image to the other posters here.
-First, kenpo is an extremely effective system for street self-defense. Like any system though, the system is only as good as the individual makes it. However, (I can only personally speak from experience of Ed Parker's system, but I would assume the same for other branches as well) kenpo was designed for defending oneself effectively on the street. It was not made for the intent of sport. Does this mean that a kenpo practitioner would be unable to excel in NHB. No, but if that practitioner is training in more "classic" kenpo style, he is training with a different intent. I truly believe that some martial arts modify to sport a little easier in some cases.
-Another factor is whether or not there are many kenpo people who would even be interested in competeing in NHB. Some of these NHB-fans seem to believe that being the next UFC, PRIDE, or whchever NHB event champ is what all martial artists are striving for. This is just not the case. Does this make these people lesser fighters. Not really. In honesty, the way some NHB events are promoted and marketed, a lot of TMA people are VERY turned off by it. They see it as an embarrassment to the arts. In some cases, espescially with some of the earlier events, I don't blame them.
-I teach a MMA that evolved first from TMA, then to cross training, then finally to MMA. I respect the roots that we came from. There is a lot of value there. I see, for myself at least MMA as an evolution rather than a revolution. NHB training is an extremely useful tool and part of our black belt cirriculum. It is also a LOT of fun for me personally; I love it. There is a lot more difference between it and real combat than many NHB fans seem to realize., though. It has even more to do with intent than it does with technique. In NHB, you are not really tryng to maim or kill. You are trying to get a victory of an athletic contest by submission or KO. Permenant damage is an accident if it happens and with that intent, you go about things differently than if you are trying to take someone out as quickly and effectively as possible with no regards for their safety. Let me emphasize though that I do feel that NHB training CAN definitely be an awesome tool for self-defense though.

 

What In your opinion makes kenpo such an extremly effective system for street self defense?
Would you consider kenpo as more technique than conditioning art or would you consider it as more of a conditioning than technique art?

 

kenpo self defence

hi firstly,kwang jang i wish you would post more ,you seem like a good dude,with a good grip on your art,secondly floor why do i get so mad,its taken hundreds of years to develope any system,and one day for a idiot to mess it up,as kwang said people have the wrong idea about mma ,and self defence there are mma that do great self defence ,and trads that do the same,it is the artist not the art ,any way im bored with circles.
cheers
matt

 

Re: kenpo self defence

Lol by asking a simple question I was not aware I was messing kempo up or DESTROYING it. If I did any permanent damage to your martial art I am very deeply sorry. I never knew I had such super natural powers to hurt a martial art with my typing powers. I mean my mommy always told me i had special powers but i thought she was just saying what all mothers say.
Questioning the affectiveness of any martial art in a self defense situation should be a very common thing in martial arts. If you think your right you shouldnt have to flame to get your point across.
QUOTE]Originally posted by matsloth
it is the artist not the art [/QUOTE]
So do you mean somone alot bigger than a smaller person with the same skill level in kempo will always best him?
Or somone with better physical conditioning will always beat somone with better technique?

 

kenpo self defence

hi fighting systems are damaged by people mis representing ,or mi understanding ,i think that was the point i was makeing,
you still havent mentioned what styles you study?,one other point, would you go into a ford owners club and say do you think fords are not practical cars,probably not,as i think you already now the answer,kenpo is world renowned for its effective use of motion,and the effective techniques,balistic speed ,ect,and size means nothing ,as i have said before i am 6ft4 and 17stone,and one of the guys i sparr often is 5ft2and about 8/9stone,he has no problem with effectiveness,nor do i ,we just deal with situations differently,just to clarify ,im not mad,or anoyed,just bothered by people mis unerstanding arts/styles,anyway i hope you find you goal in life ,you could try nhb fighting /mma/trad ,
cheers
matt

 

Matsloth,
want to encourage you and tell you I enjoyed reading your replies. NHB won't develope you for streetfighting if there are multiple attackers and or weapons. And many ma's today are incorporating streetfighing techniques into their styles.
The floor would be an enemy on the street, not a friend if your opponent had friends.

 

If every oponent in the street had a friend or friends or weapons whats the point of taking martial arts? Wouldnt you have a better chance if you just carry a gun or taking up marathon running?

One of the main things you learn in ju jitsu is to stay up and keep your balance against people trying to tackle you. If you cant prevent yourself from being taken down by one attacker whats your chance of surviving with any other martial art? Most martial arts usually teach you to strike somone who is trying to grab at your legs which i know from personal experience usually doesnt work.

 

kenpo self defence

hi firstly,hi to ptcruiser its always great to here from another kenpoist ,maybe we could talk techniques sometime,second lets carify after looking at your profile it all became clear?, i like your interests, what was it ,fighting,fighting ,fighting seems well balanced!,and your style, practical street fighting ,clarify were you got this knowledge,as in the states one of the leading self defence styles is?wait for it!kenpo,and what style of ju jitsu are you quoteing bjj or tai jitsu or prehaps b.d.k ju jitsu or maybe kempo jitsu (chows).you are not talking in the school playground,but to experienced martial artists ,most of us have studyed the styles you speak of,with our own clubs ,maybe in the security industry,or proffesional fighters,i always say dont talk the talk if you wont walk the walk,if you see what im saying,please dont get me wrong here ,ive just met to many carpark kevs,calling them selves martial artist or mma ,or better still, fighters,some people here may have 20 or 30 years expirience,these people i look upto as they were training long before me,as i said before i hope you find what you are looking for,but please walk the walk and dont talk the talk,proper martial artist can tell the difference,if you want more insight check out tatums site (thats larry tatum 10th deg ),or read some of dr la touettes books ,or the infinite insights by parker himself,
anyway thats me done .
cheers
matt
ps ptcruiser if you want, mail me at.
matthew@follain2288.freeserve.co.uk

 

-Floor I.M.F. asked me why I think kenpo is a good street self-defense system. I believe it is effective from experience. Kenpo is not my primary or base trad. system, but I do have a dan ranking in it. Like all systems, it is only as effective as the practitioner makes t, but it was designed as a modern scientific system of street fighting (at least the Parker system; I would assume that the other systems too, but I can not speak from experience there.)
-Floor also asks if I consider it a "technique or a conditioning" system. I am not really sure if I understand what you mean by this question. All systems are technical systems by their nature. Some may require high levels of conditioning to advance in rank or it may be neccesary to include a lot of PT to excel (or in some cases survive) in competition, but the conditioning is not part of the system in BJJ, Muay Thai, NHB, or any other system that I know of.
-Floor also asks what I think is more important, technique or conditioning. I don't see them as contradictory. However, if I had to choose, I would say technique. Tech. makes the most of your physical attributes. OTOH, I consider factors such as set point control, timing, accuracy, dealing w/ adrenal stress, ect. at least as important as either. Also, I still consider conditioning and physical attributes as extremely important for peak performance. I do cardio 3-4 x / wk. I have been a nat'l level strength athlete (I have done full squats w/ over 800lbs and bech in the 600 range -NOTE-for the people on the board who have read this before, I really don't bring this up because I want to brag to everyone. I just know the mindset of some of the kids on the board who think that strength and conditioning is everything and when I tell them it really isn't, I feel I have the credentials in this area to make my case.) IMO technique makes the most of what you've got while physical conditioning gives you more to work with.
-Having a fairly high level of both technical skill and athleticosm, I would say that if I had to choose one or the other for a real fight, I'd choose technique. My father is ex-Special Forces and is 67. Sometimes he will want to play around w/ me. In his day he was quite an athlete and played football for Army, but has had four major spinal surgeries. He is not physically waht he once was. Obviously, if I use technique, he hasn't got a prayer, but if I just try to muscle him I can go pretty close to full force and he will throw me around like a rag doll. In the ring(or cage), size, strength, and your physical attributes make a huge difference. On the street, it's a definite advantage, but not nearly as critical. Likewise, I have been KO'ed by a light touch by Prof. Leon Jay (the 9th dan son and succesor of GM Wally Jay of Small Circle JJ). Leon is less than 1/2 my size and probably 1/4 my strength. I'm aslo much faster and even more flexible too. There are higher levels than just just punch, kick, trap, grapple. No one in their right mind would use these in sport or want anyone using it on them.
-I should also mention another example in favor of technique, Helio Gracie. I was talking w/ Royce at MAIA's Supershow this past spring. He mentioned how despite his father's age people thought he was so powerful and fast. Royce said his father isn't either. He has great technique (and leverage) and timing instead that people mistake for these other qualities.

 

Re: kenpo self defence

Walk the walk err talk the talk.
Wow I just stated my opinions and it sounds like your ready to come over my house and beat up on my parents.
I gues I must have struck a nerve. If your not ready to defend your martial art without flaming or insults usually means you havent questioned your own martial art enough. I question my style all the time. I question its affectiveness against larger stronger oponents every time I spar. I question my ability to perform its techniques in stressfull situations. I will continue to question it until i am too old and senile to brush my own teeth at night. Maybe some people are fine with fallowing blindly. I am not saying anythings wrong with that but I prefer to question how things work in my life.

 

So many words.
Let me restate the question. In kenpo if you put a weaker smaller fighter with a better technique against a better conditioned fighter (as helio or royce have done in the past) who would come out with a better chance of winning?

 

Re: kenpo self defence

Ptcruiser-I would be happy to e-mail you

 

Hey PT I think you misread matsloths' post (mat your posts are hard to read!)

He was directing everything after the word "Second" at Floorismyfriend