Is Kali so complete as to be devestating on it's own against any art?

Hi, just asking this question as in my area and in many schools in the UK I see Kali is usually taught in combination with other arts such as in the JKD concepts system. Having joined a local school of this ilk I will soon be beginning Kali as part of my training (can't wait) and I was just wondering if Kali is by itself an art that can match any other MA in effectiveness and completeness? Would a good practitioner and fighter of Kali alone feel confident in his ability to handle most other MA's and ranges of combat (mostly with empty-hand techniques) or is it generally combined with other arts to fill in some gaps?

Rich.

 

As TMAs go Kali/Escrima/Arnis is one of the best. Without doubt it's weapons skills is it's best asset though Dumog (filipino grappling) is pretty decent.

Where I learned FMA the stand up was based on Yaw-Yan and was very simliar to thai boxing but had more variety of strikes (slaps, hammerfists etc etc). I've also seen some FMA arts with comparatively poor empty hands striking but my experience was nothing but good.

Alone it's good. Combined with other arts it's better

 

Hello,

It would depend on which fma style you were talking about. But an armed fma man would be sufficientlly equipped to deal better with real combat than most other systems with or without empty-hand striking or grappling in its particular repertoire. Having said that, in our world, martial arts shouldn't be about going up against this martial arts or that, it should be about surviving real life encounters against thugs and criminals who probably don't have the discipline to do martial arts.

 

kali is a very complete art.there are 12 area's.
the empty hand (panantuken) is very effective and also very simlar to wing chun.
the knife is very effective and can be used on the street and the weapons are also good.wait til you start learning it.your soon see how good it is

 

Kali blends with JKD and Silat perfectly that is why it is so often taught together, the beauty of it all is you can be fighting in JKD, move into Kali, then into Silat and back into JKD, it all just fits together. In the Kali that we practice it is a very good stick, knife and open hand system with strikes, disarms, joint locks etc, well worth a look, I still love the sticks and the knife the best. If you get a chance to take a look at Silat as well.......do it, it is excellent.

 

I still reckon yer average MT fighter would rip most people to smithereens.

 

Echoing what everyone said... the answer is yes*.

*- terms like Kali, Ecrima, Silat, etc. are all reductions/categories. Much like Karate, Kung Fu, etc. All systems that fall under the prior categories are not created equal. Some are optimized for different situations.

However, many forms of the FMA and it's neighbors are amoung the most complete systems you'll find. They address all ranges of combat in a very practical fashion and with an extremely (sometimes frightening) pragmatic mindset. Many also intergrate things like modern weapons (read as guns) into their training regime.

Lets put it this way, while I never want to get into a fight with anyone, folks with any level of training in the Filipino Martial Arts tend to command an extra amount of "don't go there." Especially if this is a down and dirty scenario and not a friendly duel.

- Matt

 

Muay Thai is awesome yes, but what about us who have trained in Kung Fu, Karate, Semi and full contact Kickboxing, Muay Thai, JKD, Kali & Silat, we may stand a little bit of a chance.

 

<<<I still reckon yer average MT fighter would rip most people to smithereens.>>>

Harsh, but true

 

The FMA are complete

Most people, perhaps. But an FMA practitioner that is well versed in the empty hand aspect of the art, would be a more formidable opponent than most.

Just FYI, one of our Assistant Instructors fought a MT fighter and threw him to the ground, and knocked both the wind and fight out of him in under 10 seconds, but I believe that he used a Jujitsu throw set up with some limb destructions.

And the answer to the original question is yes. The FMA is complete unto it's own and are perhaps the most complete and effective combative arts around. If you get the chance, ask Grandtuhon Leo Gaje, he has done alot of research in recent years on the empty hand arts of the FMA.

But I believe that there are many MA styles that are also effective and worth studying. I myself have nothing against mixing styles with my FMA.

 

I love the filipino boxing aspects of Kali and the weaponary, both added a great dimension to my fighting. having studied them even in the skim depth that JKD sometimes does i believe they have enough in the syllabus to stand up as a very competive art across many if not all ranges. It is very similar to muay thai in many of it aspects

 

And your average Trad FMA fighter would do the same, but would be much dirtier, nastier and more vendictive. It is in the FMA nature to fight like this.

Best regards

Pat

 

Here in the UK, normally when you mention Kali it is automatically associated with JKD, Normally if you find someone who is teaching solely FMA they would call it Eskrima or Arnis and will teach the complete art, not just portions of the art, then you will find you will have no need to fight in JKD, slip in to Kali, then slip in to Silat and again back in to Kali. Yes these arts can blend well together, but it is all there in the Trad FMA without seperation.

A good FMA practitioner will feel comfortable in any encounter but at the same time will not underestimate the opponents, they will look at you, analize you, figure you out, then work out a way to beat you. It is the adapt or die mentality that makes the FMA effective.

I do recommend that at some stage in your training that you go seek out the best in another given art such as Muay Thai, Silat, Ju JItsu etc and to find out how 1. you fair up to thse arts and 2. to learn from them, adapt your FMA skills to them and then figure out how it will improve your FMA as a whole.

FMA can and does blend nicley with other arts, but FMA in it's self does not have to. you may find that it is the other arts that are blending FMA in to them in order to improve their art, not the other way around.

Best regards

Pat

 

yeah!

i heard a yawyan fighter demolished a muay thai fighter some time ago...

 

The average MT fighters I've seen haven't done so well against wrestling and other grappling arts like BJJ. Having said that, I think an armed FMA man (which is the essence of the art, not unarmed "fair" fighting) would do well against anyone.

 

In answer to the question, the FMA certainly can stand on their own. Pat made a very good point. The FMA are often taught in conjunction with another art. An understanding of the FMA will help the practitioner learn another art as well. Angles, counters, disarms, trapping, joint destructions, and take downs are so essential to combat that learning the FMA will help anyone improve their fighting skills regardlees of what else they're into. Of course, the FMA do blend with some arts better than others.

Another aspect of the completeness of the FMA is that they have not been watered down like some other arts have over the years. They still contain very nasty, street effective techniques that have no place in the ring.

 

errr... like this?

 

Errr... possibly the most over-linked video on martial arts forums. Way to join the cliche.

Notice how the MT guy does nothing and is entirely unlike your normal MT fighter who you would see competing at a half-decent standard. MT is a notoriously devastating, EXTREMELY effective and brutal style. Now say no more about it and let's get back on topic...

 

echoing what diego_vega and pat said, depends on the system and style but mostly yes. fma's empty hands come from the weapons work. fma teaches true combat. fma is dirty.

 

that's because fma focuses of real life confrontations and survival in the real world, not in the dojo/temple/gym. only what works matters, doesn't matter how you do it as long as you got the advantage and you could walk out victorious. this kind of mentality flow thru the veins of each fma practioner and each filipino, especially those on the streets where only the wisest, dirtiest tactitioner survives.

as a yaw-yan, this is a complement... but every match depends on how much you've prepared for a fight. it takes 3 things to win: skills, heart, and training. fma, in general, got all these 3. i could say that one of our advantage is that.... we're complete cheers!