Is body conditioning in martial arts bad?

Discussion in 'Chinese Martial Arts Articles' started by Light25, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. hewho

    hewho Valued Member

    In Sanda, Thai, and Boxing we did do conditioning through punches to the body as well as bag/pad work, but it was A) optional, and B) left to each participant how hard they'd get hit. I found it useful for getting rid of flinch reflex, but I've always struggled with that. If you aren't planning to compete I'd stick to the conditioning you get through training, and I certainly wouldn't stay anywhere that tried to condition you to blows to the head.
     
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  2. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    No it is not, ok.

    This sort of conditioning of the arms and torso could be of benefit if you live in a violent place, where you are exposed to physical violence regularly enough so that building up tolerance to physical abuse is worth the potential harm that the training will cause.

    THERE IS NO BENEFIT WHAT SO EVER IN LETTING ANYONE STRIKE YOU IN THE HEAD. Striking the head with an open hand can shake the brain. Over time this can cause micro tares and brain damage.

    If you train repeatedly to follow attacks through all the way to repeated head strikes on the target you will undoubtedly get better at moving from first contact to finishing the opponent off. But at a cost to your training partner.
     
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  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Occasional Light slap boxing/light contact to the head can be used to get over an over developed flinch mechanism, but just light sparring on its own is usually a far more useful use of time.
     
  4. Light25

    Light25 New Member

    Thank you, I'll try to be careful from places like that.

    So maybe I should get into that type of conditioning training when I'm a little older cause that's what they do there. I don't wanna risk myself.

    That makes much more sense now. Thanks for the help. If they train me with reflexes to avoid hits but if they do it just to slap around is no good.
     
  5. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

  6. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Video doesn't appear to be working mate.
     
  7. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    It was just a link to Facebook showing Eubank Jr and a medicine ball.
     
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  8. Acesty6

    Acesty6 New Member

    it depends on how old you are the joints and muscle tissues on body really need to adopt more when get started older that 20's
    training and professional help is needed conditiong while learning is much better
     
  9. TheDarkJester

    TheDarkJester 90% Sarcasm, 10% Mostly Good Advice.

    You should be starting day 1. Now with that being said, if you're bashing limbs full force with a partner or against anything.. you're wrong. If you're bruising yourself, your wrong. Bruising yourself isn't making you physically tougher. It's taking away time so you can heal. I work with junior students every class and the biggest problem they have is wanting to go full blast. We do finger/hand conditioning, arms and legs after warm ups and stretching before getting into the curriculum.
     
  10. Simon

    Simon The Bulldog Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Welcome to MAP.

    Given that you work with juniors what type of hand/finger conditioning do you do?
     
  11. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Valued Member MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Again, it is 100% a waste of time in class.
     
  12. TheDarkJester

    TheDarkJester 90% Sarcasm, 10% Mostly Good Advice.

    Partner based, Grip your partners hand fingers intertwined, rolling inside, outside, forward and back with palms connected and fingers clenching inwards. I also recommend to my juniors that they go purchase a grip strength trainer to use in their off time to further increase finger strength. I practice northern praying mantis so the middle, ring and pinky fingers are used extensively in what is called mantis hand or dieu sau or working full hand grabs for trapping called fong sau. Iron palm training will obviously come much later on in a students training as juniors have yet to really learn to relax and would damage themselves by trying to smash the bag as hard as possible, setting them further back due to injury.
     
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  13. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Any gym offering training involving striking the head in any way, that doesn't also incorporate the proper safety equipment for sparring, would be a big red flag to me. I know plenty of fine men and women who can eat punches to the face and laugh them off, but I don't think a single one of them would willingly subject themselves to head strikes during training when they could avoid it, or without safety equipment. I mean, it's called "punch drunk" for a good reason and taking clues from the professionals (injuries) is always important. We also now live in an age when CTE of pro ball players is starting to be recognized as a systemic problem with all kinds of tackles. The idea that training is there to break up and rebuild your body, in my opinion, is a kind of martial arts superman myth. So from a non-kung fu point of view, I agree 100% with the consensus here that you're better off learning how to slip hits than take them. And I also believe basic cardio is probably the best "body conditioning" you can do. Nothing pulls your guard down faster than gassing out. Your ability to breathe during even mild conflict is a lot more important than getting slapped a thousand times in class. I once saw a backyward video of Kimbo Slice once one punch KO'ing some guy who warmed up by having his trainer slap him all over...a show of "conditioned" tough guyness that was quickly proven useless by a fast five fingered kiss to the grill.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
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  14. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    My bad, it was a Kimbo Slice video of Level vs "Karate Man". Google "LEVEL VS. KARATE MAN" to see what I mean. I can't post the video itself because it has foul language, but I'll bet the karate dude conditions himself like that with chops all the time, and boy it didn't do a single bit of good did it? Reminds me of my favorite scene from Karate Kid.

     
  15. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Just seen this. Also relevant.

     
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  16. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    That was a sweet left...for a righty. Same issue as with "KARATE MAN", all that body conditioning doesn't mean much when your head is so open. Squish like grape. :)
     
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  17. Unreal Combat

    Unreal Combat Valued Member

    The better example to use is Yi Long because he actually eats strikes in professional fights.



    The reason he can take those shots is because he drops his chin before it lands.

    Just taking random shots to the head with no specific defence method being trained is a waste of time.

    You can use water for that. No need for unnecessary contact.
     
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  18. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    What would you say is proper safety equipment?
     
  19. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    The point of the video I posted was just to highlight that spending an inordinate amount of time on body conditioning such as that seen in TCMA to the the detriment of actual fighting skills is a bad idea. The guy might look intimidating or impressive taking those body shots but when it came to application he was left wanting.

    The Yi Long video only serves to demonstrate the wisdom behind tucking your chin, that the shots you see are the ones you can absorb more easily, that psychology is a large part of combat and when taken in light of the fact he has been knocked out doing that before it also shows why your defensive strategy needs to go beyond 'tuck your chin' and that magic isn't real. Given that the shaolin element is just marketing I doubt he has actually done any conditioning of his head.
     
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  20. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    At a minimum, I'd say gummies, shinnies (if kicks are in play) and 14-16oz gloves.

    I think head gear and chest protection is fine but I wouldn't necessarily say it is mandatory.

    I should probably wear a cup but I never do.
     

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