Is Aikido really that hard to learn?

It's said a lot on the boards that Aikido is very difficult to learn and that it may take 3 years for an Aikidoist to defend himself as well as a student in another style. It's been said so many times that it's almost taken for granted as a truism. In fact I've said it myself on occassion, but now I wonder if it's really true. Perhaps the reason it takes so long for Aikidoists to gain proficiency is that they are not taught in a fashion that will allow rapid skill development, or the physical conditioning necessary to apply it.

I haven't been training much lately, dur to a re-prioritizing of my life, but I still love Aikido and get on the mat when I can. During a recent visit I realized that my skills had diminished (go figure) in a way that I found distressing but wasn't apparent to my training partners. They still ended up where I wanted them to go, just without the (comparative) effortlessness that I'm used to, and occasionally with more conviction due to my need to compensate. Essentially I could probably defend myself (in a rough and ready sort of way) as well as ever but would be in no position to teach the finer parts of the art to a student.

Years ago I had a related experience helping my instructor produce an instructional video of the junior division techniques (simplified applications of the base curriculum) that we use with children. After a couple hours I felt like I'd been run over by a train, and was dreading being asked to come out as uke, in a way that I've never felt during regular training.

What I came away from these two experiences is that Aikido can be simple, doesn't always have to look or feel pretty, it can be effective, and it can be taught rapidly (we had some adolescents who became proficient (in their limited technique set) in a flash.

I wonder then if part of the problem in translating mat time to proficiency, and the corresponding lack of credibility given to us by practitioners of other arts doesn't have more to do with the way we teach (too much detail, to much early emphasis on KI, etc.) than with the art itself.

Just thinking aloud here, what's your opinion?

--Bear

 

Thats a very interesting point

I have to admit that when I did Aikido I was frustrated with how slow I was progressing so eventually I quit after a year and a halfs trainning because I felt that I hadn't learned much in comparison to other arts I studied and it certainly hadnt been available to me when I was involved in confrontation.

When discussing this and trying for myself JJJ I found that it seemed to be Aikido but with a more Martial edge to it, less emhasis on the constant refinement of techniques and the idea behind them and a bit more emphasis on a get in there and try it out under pressure philosophy.

I dont see any reaon not to train Aikido like this (Though minus sparring) and to include more pressure in the Randori and have it earlier and I think it would make the whole process of learning more "Fun" but then that is just my own personal preference.

 

I'd like to point out that I am awesome at not fighting allready, I can in fact do it and type a message like this at the same time whereas I couldnt type the message at the same time as fighting, this would sugest to me that most people need to bring their fighting skills up to scratch and not their not fighting skills.

 

My own opinion is that, for most people, Aikido IS harder to learn than many other martial arts because of the need to combine so many elements to make it effective - a bad punch may still work, a bad lock or throw is less likely to, especially on the street. Timing, distance, balance and mental attitude are all critical. 'Not fighting' was explained by my Sensei in SD terms as the most effective defence: 'Don't be there!'. I now know that he was referring to Aikido's almost unique ability to evade strikes and use the energy of that attack to defeat the attacker. If we are good at that, in some situations, we can avoid damaging an attacker - and make them look pretty dumb as they crash and burn!

The old adage of it taking many years to be good enough to defend yourself vs. a striking art should not really hold true. If we rely for our defence on complex movements or large circles then IMHO it is not Aikido at fault but just a poor choice of technique.

Lots of variables here - does your style have a curriculum which includes some SD? Does it make use of attacks with modern weapons - baseball bat, chain, bottle, as well as live tanto etc.? Aikido, in experienced and calm hands, is very good at defending against those weapons. Do you have 'freestyle'with fast and furious attacks and a real risk of hard contact with uke's fists - or feet?

On another favourite topic, we should all be taught effective atemi as part of our training in Aikido. That alone should put us on a good footing for SD. However, some styles IMHO definitely lend themselves more to SD than others - 3 years of hard Yoshinkan direct linear stuff may pay off quicker than most softer styles. My old Sensei used to say 'the first 10 years are the hardest' - after that, the softest style exponents should also be able to defend themselves. He also advised that, as well trained BB's used to live weapons and a range of attacks, we should expect to avoid death but are still likely to get cut or injured on the street. 'Zanshin - be aware' was his advice.

I guess it boils down to our reason for learning Aikido in the first place. How many of us have thrown out 'meat heads' who 'want to learn to fight' - sometimes after demonstrating to them how pain can show them the error of their ways?

As for losing your touch? We all lose fitness at an alarming rate, but I'm not so sure about aikido skills. Maybe you had a bad patch. I've had months when I've trained hard and felt like I was getting worse and worse! But I've also had a break of a month or so and everyone remarked how much better I was when I got back on the mat! As a result I endeavour to stay fresh - variety seems to me to be the key to successful learning - it may be different for others.

Advice? Think of how good it felt when it all went well and recreate that feeling of positive energy to motivate yourself now. Every time you breathe in, imagine that you breathe in positive energy, strength and joy. Your positive attitude is hugely important both on the street and in the dojo. You know that already, so 'relive' that winning feeling and reprogramme your brain into feelgood mode. Even in our hard style Shudokan sessions, we all practised 10-15 mins of meditation 'misogi' to clear the mind before training. If your dojo members are teling you that you are OK then believe them - remember, the mind is all we have that is truly our own!

Good luck.

 

Oooh, good reply.

/me bows

 

Kiaiki,

Thanks for the kind words and the advice. But my skills HAVE diminished, basically because I almost never train anymore. But I'm not complaining or asking for sympathy, just setting the background for what got me thinking about this.

Aikimac,

When I talk about too much attention to detail, I don't mean the detail isn't important, just that if you do it too early and too often it slows the progress. Most noobs aren't capably of digesting that much detail anyway (they have no context for it) so why not teach them a less refined version until they get the gyst of it, and let the refinement come with experience? If you teach calculus before arithmetic, it won't make much sense. Neither do the finer points of Aikido.

To all,

I don't completely agree that Aikido is inherantly more complicated than other arts. I spent 4 years in TKD, and have dabbled in other arts (a year or less) as well, they all have finer points to learn. They just don't look that way from the outside, and the instructors do a better job of teaching from the simple to the complex, instead of the other way around. Of course this is all IMHO and generalities so let's not get sidetracked with defending our Senseis.

I also don't think Aikido holds the moral high ground Aikidoists sometimes claim. Senior practitioners of most MAs say they're refining the spirit, looking for ways to avoid conflict etc. They're just doing it through the process of learning to fight, no shame in that. Like Slindsay said I already know how to not fight, and didn't need to put in the 13 years of blood, sweat, and tears I've devoted to Aikido to improve that.

For me Aikido is not only about learning "how not to fight". If that were the case all we'd learn is situational awareness, avoidance, and evasion, and could do that very quickly. It's also about how to fight effectively when the above fail, and compassionately if the situation allows. I just think the effectively part of the curriculum could be accelerated in many instances, without necessarily losing the compassion or refinement.

Bear

 

Aikido is very difficult to learn for many reasons. I sort of came up with a list of two things:

1) Aiki is a bilateral principle. What this means is that not only do you need to consider your own abilities and intentions when applying technique, but you also need to consider the environment and the abilities and intentions of uke. A martial art like boxing is much more unilateral... I punch my opponent (that is the techique) and the skill comes into play when actually trying to hit the opponent. On the other hand, bilateral techniques such as most techniques trained in Aikido require that the opponent be understood enough in their intentions and movements so that the technique can work better. Add on top of that consideration of the environment... I can use a punching technique pretty much anywhere with almost the same results, but try something like a hip throw in a room full of funiture... you start the throw to find out that the opponent has their leg wrapped around a bed post, and that completely changes the dynamics of the technique.

All martial arts that utilize primarily bilateral principles are harder to learn.


2) Aikido is more than a fighting art. It has lots of philosophical content within the teachings. It is more like going to college than a vocational school.

 

Rebel Wado,

Interesting position but I disagree. First of all I'm gonna just discard the whole fighting in a room full of furniture bit. That applies to all arts, and isn't really the point in any case.

As for the bilateral unilateral distinction, I don't buy it. One needs just as much understanding of their opponent in the striking arts to determine the correct strike, set him up for it, then deliver it, as one does for Aikido technique to work. It's true that a poor uke will make it harder for you to practice, than a poor sparring partner will; but the ukes are only as poor as sensei trains them to be. If the instructors are doing thier job the ukes will have sufficient ukemi to participate in training the techniques appropriate to their rank or grade.

Aikido is more than a fighting art, but more in the Fighting Plus other stuff sense than the something other than fighting sense. And one's comprehension of the physical teachings need not be dependant upon their understanding of the philosophical content. I think if you're trying to teach two subjects (the physical content and the philosophical content) it's best to develop some facility with the simpler one (the physical) and use it to help clarify the complex one (the philosophy) than to do them simultaneously, or in reverse.

Three messages in one day is a lot for me (slow day at work) and now it's time to go home. Have a nice weekend,

Bear

 

Every fighting art utilizes both unilateral and bilateral principles. It is like Yin and Yang, there is a small circle of Yin in Yang, and a small circle of Yang in Yin.

Aikido uses very little unilateral principles and stresses bilateral. It does not matter striking or grappling it matters the way the technique works. Most karate uses bilateral principles too. The idea that you draw in your attacker and then counter them is bilateral. However, karate also uses unilateral principles such as pre-emptive striking. Aikido can use unilateral principles such as pre-emptive striking with irimi.

However this does not change the fact that the majority of techniques taught in Aikido follow bilateral principles.

With something like boxing or wrestling, you can charge your opponent, overwhelm them and defeat them and you don't frankly have to be a great fighter or be particularly sensitive to your opponent, it doesn't matter as much if we are in a house or in the dojo or on the streets -- you use your superior force, size, momentum, surprise, power, etc. to take them out in one shot. This is unilateral force. How much training in Aikido is like this?

I gather that not much training at all in Aikido is using unilateral methods to defeat uke. No, instead you draw in the attack and then out flank uke, blending with energy and such to make it all work.

My point is you don't have to be all that great a fighter to defeat an opponent using unilateral methods, but to defeat an opponent using bilateral methods, you got to be quite skilled. Thus it takes longer to learn Aikido because you have to be more skilled to get it to work.

Certainly you can use unilateral methods and still be a very skilled fighter, the point is that you don't have to be as skilled to get unilateral methods to work, you just have to be fast, strong, aggressive, powerful, determined, etc. You don't have to be as skilled so you can go out and use what you learn in class sooner and it will work.

There is a lot more in Aikido than is found in a more streamlined combat only type training. It just is more to learn. But then this can be true of any martial art.

 

Well - I would love to learn Aikido.
I tried Judo, but I injured myself twice, so perhaps it's not for me. Maybe I was trying to run before I could walk - dunno.
Anyway, I took my son along to a local aikido club but there was nobody there!
Is Aikido in the uK a dying art?

 

I don't know, but just a formality. When going to visit a martial arts school, it is generally best to call ahead of time and let them know you want to come. They can then be prepared for you and set up an appointment as necessary.

Also, some schools close down during part of the summer because the instructors are travelling. Best time to visit schools I believe is in Fall when lots of people come back to train and new people join. Winter months are good also for the younger crowd. A lot of people seem to like that time to join up so that they will be in shape for spring time bikinis and thongs... oh anyway, nevermind about that. Can you tell that I have taught college aged students a lot in the past?

I think I've been typing too much. The thread on color codes really got be going.

Cheers.

 

Yeah - I thought of calling, but really went on the spur of the moment (ie. I'd wanted to go for a while, but just happened to have the time then).
I know about summer close downs, and that could well have been it.

 

I think the actual question is how long does it take to become effective at aikido.

That question has of course been done to death.

Aikido IMHO isn't any harder or easier to learn that any other 'complex' system. BUDO is at the end of the day a life-long study, for which most of us actually start somewhere through the first quarter of our life.

Another important question which we must ask ourselves at some point, is..

What do I actually want or need from my study? I can only answer for myself.

When I started Aikido I was a Prison Officer, I learned the Kansetsu waza which complimented my 'Home Office Control & Restraint' techniques.

As I spent more and more time studying my aims and goals altered. I also changed jobs. My study now is specifically aimed at 'tradition' I'm less interested in 'modern day application' (IE self defense) preferring to understand the roots and principles as best I can. What I've discovered however; the more I look at the origins, the more I understand 'modern' aikido.

Yes I find Aikido difficult, but then I found my academic qualifications likewise difficult to attain. In life I'm a methodic learner meaning I don't always pick things up quickly, I may understand visually, and comprehend what I should be doing but making the 'ole body function thusly can be a different issue

Then again if Aikido wasn't a challenge for me, I doubt I'd be still doing it.

Here's an analogy between this topic and another.

In addition to Aikido, I hold fairly advanced qualifications in mixed gas technical diving; indeed I am qualified to dive to depths in excess of 50mtrs using rebreathers rather than traditional 'open circuit' scuba. I am qualified in wreck penetration (a very hazardous activity) diver rescue and breathing gas blending.

Diving is (believe it or not) an exceptionally dangerous sport, naturally the deeper and longer you stay, the higher the risks so, when I began my interest in technical diving I sought out a reputable school. However; I could have approached other agencies that are well known within the diving community for offering courses and qualifications which are very easy to achieve. But would I actually have the right skills to dive the profiles I wish ? The answer is of course no !

There are major differences between "Recreational" diving and "Technical" diving although outwardly to the lay person it's all SCUBA DIVING

Now, Aikido isn't that different if we remember the significance of "do" and "jutsu". Aiki-do is the study of a tradition which has its roots set in war like arts "jutsu" as such, Aiki-do carries a significantly larger amount of 'baggage' to sift through as part of the learning curve. That aim isn't to effectively kill (if it were, it would be somewhat easier to learn)

Jujutsu - Now Judo
Aiki-jutsu - Now Aikido
Iai-jutsu - Now Iaido
Ken-jutsu - Now Kendo...

...and so on and so forth

Is Aikido a fighting art ? Yes, but it isn't the art's primary aim, thus the learning curve is a long one.

Regards as always

 

Great post Dave. :love:

Got me thinking. Maybe Aikido teaches how not to kill.

 

I think a fair summary then is that:

a) Yes, aikido is a low art to learn in comparison with the more direct arts.
b) Aikido is not for everybody.

Would people think those are fair statements?

 

"Aikido is a LOW art" ??? What on earth do you mean by that mate ?

Regards

 

Dave I think its a typing error, should read SLOW art to learn
Brian