Is Aikido A Martial Art?

It appeared to me that he gave the opening for you as part of that particular technique demonstration. I obviously must have missed something.

So, for both run-throughs of that technique, he was supposed to be stopping your palm from reaching his face?

 

Sure, but read my post above to aikiwolfie; I thought the other guy was deliberately leaving that opening for the purposes of the demo.

That's totally different to drilling something where you're supoosed to be protecting yourself and getting a tap for leaving an opening.

And sparring is another deal entirely. But, with both drilling and sparring, if someone suddenly ramps up their speed to get a cheeky hit in, that's a douche manoeuvre.

 

i feel like we're having a conversation that's going on in so many directions david. there's severe conflation of discussions going on.

but i think if i can summarize one point, i think we all agree: cross-train.

 

i love seeing pictures of koyo pop up years later. he was a great man and teacher, and i never actually met him.

 

No. He decided to be the attacker and I was defending.

 

we arent talking about cross training, we are talking about training your art realistically there is a world of difference between those two things

 

Realistically Aikido is a number of arts combined into one. Some folks were doing MMA before it was MMA. And most decent martial arts practitioners will cross train in one way or another. Be it training in multiple arts at once or gaining experience in one and then moving on taking that experience with them.

When you pretend your chose art exists in a vacuum that is when it loses it's relevance to the world.

 

If striking is an important part of aikido then the above is a huge flaw in the delivery of teachers and coaches. It would be like me as a Judo/Jujitsu coach saying its not my job to teach students how to break their opponents balance.

 

Realistically nearly every martial art under the sun is an collection of a number of arts but what exactly has that got to do with anything? Im not talking about cross training or testing your skills at another club, im talking about training your art realistically in the first place so it actually works the way you want it to

Im talking about learning aikido against realistic attacks using modern equipment, so instead of practising your defences against someone stepping in with an over commited knife hand strike to the neck who leaves his hand out there for you to play with, you practise it against someone who actually throws a punch and retracts it like any normal sane person would wearing safetly equipment so both of you can go home at the end of the day in one piece?

What is so hard about understanding that?

 

It does work the way I want it to though. It seems to me it doesn't work in a way that suits you. And there's really nothing I can do about that other than recommend you stay away from Aikido and do something else that does suit your requirements.

 

It can be done...but there is a point where it stops being Aikido/Ju Jutsu and is a lock or throw done on the back of something else

Art for arts sake is perfectly valid even in a martial context...it's not what *I* am after but so long as it delivers what it promises and doesn't promise what it doesnt I have no issues

 

In TMA, the art aspect and with it traditions, will mostly take presidence over modern day knowledge/advancements.

The more traditionally routed - the more true to the art it is, with all it's benefits and flaws (which advocates of each style either buy or is ignorant of)

This is the mindset of traditional martial arts at it's core. If you want modern fully applicable martial arts training, visit an MMA club.

You will never convince a traditionalist that what is preached is wrong/ineffective, no matter how completely outdates some concepts are.

I briefly relayed how clearly changes had been made in my own art, but I would say it's the exception rather than the rule.

 

So why are you posting here? Please stop wasting our time and we won't waste yours.

 

Questions have been raised unanswered, by Icefield, among others.

I answered the question. Get it?

 

No. I haven't seen you add anything constructive to a thread on MAP ever.

 

Understanding and ACCEPTING that people has biases is even harder.

I mean, would you MAP guys accept this statement:

when ACUPUNCTURE is the topic being discussed?

In acupuncture people here question how does it work and how significant its workings are in the larger 'health' context(compared to placebo, sham needling, etc.). And they bash it.

Now try applying those questions to aikido... :evil: (replace 'health' with 'physical conflict')

That's why better to accept this suggestion:

cuz that's what also applies to acupuncture here on this site.

PS

One of the things I like watching leitai events is that they perform a form/kata/taolu first. Then you can see the dissonance between what they supposedly practice and what they are REALLY doing. One of the basic things to look out for is FOOTWORK (it's the element that gives someone tactical options). I've never seen an aikidoka do the footwork (irimi,tenkan,etc.) against someone REALLY wanting to bash their head in so they look like a ninja turtle. Even Rik Ellis (the son of the article's author) who says he is an aikidoka in MMA doesn't demonstrate it in his fights. The aikido footwork I've witnessed (and experienced in demos) DRASTICALLY changes the angles available to the aikidoka, thus making one being able to "aiki". Probably the reasons why it doesn't appear in his fights are

1. He didn't ingrain it enough (unlikely for me because he's exposed to aikido as a kid)
2. His subconscious has found BETTER ways (than aikido)to deal with the situation at hand. Thus he reverts to them when the going gets tough.

That's why I don't look at the individual technique (wristlock, takedown, etc.) as indicative of an art. I look at the PATTERNS they train with. If the pattern is irimi-clothesline-single arm clinch-tenkan-takedown, that's what I look for when they are against ADAPTING opposition. That makes it easy to look for dissonance. And the most effective arts in my opinion are those with the least dissonance.

 

Would you be kind enough to explain the way it works the way you want it to?

 

According to MAP thanks ratings, you are 1/3rd as helpful as itf-taekwondo (and that's the best calculation).

 

Well Aikido can be tested and so can acupuncture. And it turns out there is something to acupuncture.

http://youtu.be/41vm87qq1KU?t=52m30s

 

But what does something count for?

I'm not bashing Aikido, as Giovanni and Bassai (to name but two) have given some compelling reasons, but what relevance does acupunture have to Aikido, to your mind? Something to do with ki?