I have started my Ninjutsu class and it is AWESOME! Really enjoying it and can't wait for more training! It's very practical in my opinion, focusing on real life situation rather than wasting energy with dramas and rules. It's straight forward and simple. It has no rules and it's worth it! :ninja1: Anyway this has probably been posted before but I just thought I might try posting it. And none of the word below is written by me, all pasted from the source: link below. ----- Dr. Hatsumi was asked many years ago to provide documentation of some of his lineage for admittance to the Kobudo Shinkokai, perhaps the most reliable of the major organizations of traditional Japanese martial arts, and according to Donn Draeger, in a conversation to me, he was not able to provide documentation which proved his lineage to their satisfaction. Thus, there are uncertain areas in Dr. Hatsumi's lineage. Amdur, Ellis. "Re: KOGA NINJITSU or NINJUTSU (whichever you prefer )" rec.martial-arts. 1999/06/09). You can double check this by searching the past messages of rec.martial-arts at: deja.com. There are also quite a few inaccuracies with the histories of many of the schools that teach "ninjutsu" as known in the West. The following is a part of a conversation between a Mr. Vlad Zotta and Dr. Karl Friday of the University of Georgia, who not only is a history professor specializing in Japan but is also a menkyo kaiden in Kashima Shin-ryu, on the subject of Dr. Hatsumi and ninjutsu: Q: Sensei Hatsumi never synthesized espionage techniques into Ninjutsu. Sensei Hatsumi is soke in 9 Ninjutsu schools: TOGAKURE RYU NINJUTSU 34TH SOKE, GYOKKO RYU KOSSHIJUTSU 28TH SOKE, KUKISHINDEN RYU HAPPO HIKENJUTSU 26TH SOKE. Dr. Friday: These are just 3 out of 9. Problem is that if he is the 34th soke it means logically that there where 33 more sokes before him. If this school were a modern one it means they'd have to switch every almost three years which didn't happen. That might be persuasive logic if there were any documentation to substantiate Hatsumi's claim to 33 predecessors. But there is none--as I noted earlier, no document for the Togakure-ryu that predates the Meiji period (or rather, none that survived the scrutiny of independent experts). Moreover, the genealogies claimed by Hatsumi (and by his teacher Takamatsu To*****ugu) are highly suspect. The Katori-Shinto-ryu and the Kashima-Shinryu, two of the oldest classical bugei schools in Japan, are currently in their 20th and 19th generations. The Owari branch of the Yagyu Shinkage-ryu is in its 21st. The Jikishin-kageryu is in its 18th. All of these schools date back to the late 15th or mid 16th century, the very dawn of the organized bugei ryuha phenomenon. How is it that the Togakure-ryu has passed through 34 generations. And why has the Kumogakure-ryu passed though only 14? The Takamatsu-Hatsumi genealogy for the Shinden Fudo-ryu traces things back 25 generations to the mid 11th century, which is at least 400 years earlier than any historian accepts the existence of any bugei ryuha--and at least two centuries before the scale and organization of warfare in Japan would make espionage activity valuable enough for anyone to seriously consider developing methods for carrying it out. Hatsumi's titles to most of the ryuha he claims to be soke for come from Takamatsu To*****ugu, who in turn claimed to have inherited them from Toda Masamitsu. It's worth noting, in this context, that in the third edition of the Bugei ryuha daijiten Watatani Kiyoshi stated that Takamatsu (who was, BTW, a personal friend of his) had created his "ninpo" ryuha and teachings from "ninja-gokko" ("childhood ninja games")..." (Friday, Karl Dr. "Re: Ninja and Ninjato" on the Japanese Sword Art Mailing List. May 19th, 1999.). You can search the archives of the Japan Sword Art Mailing List at: http://testinfo.uoguelph.ca/cgi-bin/wa?S1=iaido-l for more information on the subject. This exchange also appeared in the June-July-Aug 1999 Journal of Japanese Sword Arts. So to answer the question, no. None of the ninjutsu organizations mentioned are recognized by the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai nor the Nihon Kobudo Kyokai to my knowledge. Although the histories of many of the schools claiming to teach ninjutsu are apparently less than accurate, it does not mean that what these people do is without merit. Dr. Hatsumi may be a wonderful teacher and the Bujinkan's techniques may be very applicable as well. The same goes for the other ninjutsu organizations. For some people these points may be more important to them than their school's historical claims. ~ Ron Beaubien --------- Source: http://www.mardb.com/ninjutsu/ninjutsu-and-koryu-bujutsu.html
Well I just wanted to post this and see what you guys think about it. But I would like to ask now: How long have you guys been training in the Bujinkan and how do you find it? I am happy with the dojo so far and I guess it's just a little annoying if there's people that always look at the Bujinkan practitioners as complete fake dreaming they are practicing the authentic Ninjutsu truly brought foward from the past. So for those who have been practicing for years I can understand how this on going debate can bug you guys. This is the website of the dojo I'm training in: http://www.bujinkanmalaysia.com/ And here's the little history of how Ninjutsu came to Malaysia: Ninjutsu in Malaysia Authentically speaking, Ninjutsu started in Malaysia when Mr. William Boesen (8th Dan), a Danish expartriate and ex-soldier met up with a group of Malaysians training in Budo (Ninpo) Taijutsu on their own somewhere in the 1990's. He gave them advance and intensive training in all aspects of Ninjutsu. It was him (with assistance from Mr. Justyn Olby and Mr. Marcus Snoddy) who graded and delivered hand written certificates from Soke Maasaki Hatsumi to the Malaysian members. Mr. Boesen left for home in 1999. One of our members, Mr. James Lee P.K. was given the task of furthering Bujinkan Budo (Ninpo) Taijutsu, (or in short Bujinkan Ninjutsu) in Malaysia. ---------- I'm happy with my dojo and I hope you guys are happy with yours.
Hi to James Lee from me, Ali - the Irish shidoshi who trained at his dojo in KL in 2006 on my way to Oz. They were an excellent bunch of students and I'm glad to hear that they're still going.
That's good to know, I just got to know about this dojo last year, glad to be participating. James Lee seems to be an awesome sensei.
