I had no intention of starting an argument, but whatever. Really? How long did you study hapkido and what were these differences? You can't be bothered writing them, but you're happy to tell me I'm wrong. Convenient. Also, why do you think you hear this all the time? Could it be because it's the truth? Well, being that hapkido is descended from japanese jujitsu, it's no wonder your techniques look an awful lot like japanese jujitsu. You got them from HKD and HKD got them from JJJ. In a way, he's right. Because KSWPaul mentioned that he'd like to know how similar the techniques actually are. As I quoted above: That's why I posted it. Look, I have no problem with KSW. I like the system. But for the most part KSW is hapkido. I'm sorry if you don't like that, but it doesn't mean it's not true. As I said, you have forms that don't exist in hapkido and you have more weapons than exist in hapkido, but your technical cirriculum is hapkido. edited for spelling.
okay......i'm a bit drunk just now so if this doesn't make sense ignore me! I am not denying that Hapkido and KSW are similar! They are and like you said KSWarrior it used to be called Kuk Sool Hapkido! I'm just sick of people saying that KSW is the same as hapkido! You have already admitted that there are forms and weapons that are not in hapkido - therefore it is not the same! I trained in Hapkido for 3 years whilst at Uni in England but continued to train in KSW by travelling 100 miles there and back twice weekly! It just botheres me because its as if people dismiss KSW as a "copy art"! It may be but I don''t really care! It has differences to KSW. I apologise as I did not read KSWPaul's post about wanting to train in Hapkido! I thought you were just another of many Hapkido practictioners that wish to state that KSW is a copy of Hapkido! I am a memeber of several other MA forums and this comes up again and again! I don't wish to get into an argument either! Just that KSW does have differences to Hapkido - I suspect that In Hyuk Suh trained with Hapkido masters and incoperated them into KSW! i already have doubts about the true history of KSW but remain that it is a very comprehensive MA and that's why I study it!
KSW and Hapkido, from what I've seen are very similar, in not almost identical, in their techniques (again this is just what I've seen). As I understand the history though, this doesn't make it a "copy art." From what I've read, Hapkido in it's most widespread and current form was started about the same time as KSW. I thought they were both just started by people who had studied similar things, but went on and made their own styles.
OK, I don't want to be misunderstood, here. I'm not claiming that KSW is a "copy" of hapkido, not at all. Like I've said there are weapons and forms that hapkido doesn't have. What I am saying is that KSW's early cirriculum, up through 1st dan and all the 2nd and 3rd dan techniques I've seen come directly from hapkido. Pick a set, Sohn Mok Soo, Di Eu Bok Su, Too Ki, Gok Da Bub, they're techniques from hapkido. Higher level techniques are probably from somewhere else. The palm striking techniques that Master Simms so often demonstrates don't look like any HKD I've seen. That's an easy assumption to make, however, if you looked at the history of hapkido, you'd see that hapkido's core techniques were imported from Japan by a man named Choi Yong Sool. One of his earlier students Ji Han Jae moved to Seoul and taught most of the hapkido masters out there today. He also created some sets of techniques that appear in KSW (cane techniques, dan bong techniques, I believe the rope techniques were his invention as well). Being that KSW has these techniques, it stands to reason that your grandmaster studied with Ji or one of his students for some time. How else would these techniques have come into your system? If you need more more evidence, remember than Kuk Sa Nim's brother is the head of one of the major Korean hapkido federations. So, basically, I'm saying that the technical similarities between HKD and KSW aren't just a coincidence of two people studying similar arts and coming up with their own things. Rather KSW is a synthesis of something that In Hyuk Suh knows and hapkido. I'm not trying to disparage KSW by saying that it consists primarily of HKD techniques. I even practice the KSW hyungs on occasion. I'll be frank though, I do get a little annoyed that systems like KSW and Hwarangdo claim ancient korean roots while failing to mention that a large chunk of their cirriculum is from hapkido. I mean, it's great that they've added more to their systems, more power to them, but how about showing a little respect for hapkido and admitting where your techniques come from?
I had heard that In Sun Seo had studied with GM Choi - at least, I think that's what I read. Anyway, Kuk Sa Nim dates the beginning of Kuk Sool Won in 1958 or something, right? That would make him around 20 or so when he became GM. Doesn't that seem a little young?
From what I've read, they all studied under GM Choi at the same time (including Hwa Rang Do's Dr. Lee), so the similarities are only natural. The 3 arts (hapkido, kuk sool & hwarangdo) are all based on what was learned from GM Choi.
That's possible, but it does seem odd that both KSW and Hwarangdo have techniques which Ji invented. Also, technically KSW is closer to Ji's flavor than Choi's. Perhaps there was some sharing of material between peers or perhaps GM Suh and Lee studied with Ji Han Jae, regardless, there are a lot of commonalities between Ji's hapkido and KSW. Just FYI for those who don't know, Ji Han Jae is still alive.
That's actually what I was thinking as well, because from what I've heard, the only kicks present in Choi's hapkido were below the waist. As I understand it, he basically taught Jujitsu exactly as he had learned it, without any of the things we know of as unique to Hapkido. I would believe that Suh, or his brothers, studied under Choi, but that seems insufficientm since there are similarities to Ji's Hapkido. Does Ji Han Jae have an e-mail address?
The kicking is definitely something that indicates that KSW is at least partly based in Ji's teaching. The dan bong, cane and rope techniques are equally telling. There are cane techniques in japanese jujitsu, but most of them have a sword-like characteristic. They're more focused on striking than locking. Akido does throw with the staff, but it's throws are very different. Here's the web site for Ji Han Jae's HKD org. http://www.sinmoohapkido.com/ I think if you look at the technical similarities between KSW and Ji-line hapkido, it's pretty hard to deny that Ji Han Jae's hapkido is in there.
