Just so I am not mistaking you, are you advocating that no pentjak silat instructors should commit the great and terrible sin of attempting to make a living using their knowledge in this modern world, or just the ones the you personally disagree with? You might look around and notice that we, at least those of us here in the country you and I share, do not live in small, collaborative villages where a gifting economy might thrive or even survive. If you are implying that Pak Vic’s pricing structure is remarkably higher than those of other martial artists of his or even lesser caliber, well then I suggest you take a more rational survey with a more realistic definition of “too much” other than “more than none.” OK, Ed that's what I meant. Why are you ducking the issues? The issue isn't Silat teachers making a living from teaching. The issue isn't even Victor's ability. The issue I have is called Truth In Advertising. How can you substantiate the claims that you made in your article? It all leads back to the truth. In one instance, what we are talking about here is teaching Martial arts to make a living. On the other, making outragous claims about "space craft blueprints" and history dating back "2500 years". How about just telling the truth? How about this; Hi, my name is Victor deThouars! I was born in Indonesia. Upon Indonesian independence, the Dutch were expelled, and my family had to return to the Netherlands. It was there that I learned this amazing martial art from my older brothers.They were all very gifted martial artists who learned this 'silat' from our Uncle, who I have been told is the lineage holder of this system. I was taught quite a bit by my one of my brothers, who is much older than me. I must tell you, he was a great fighter and posessed a tremendous understanding of this art. In the early 60's, my whole family decided to move to America in the hopes of prospering in a free-land with a booming economy. In America, I trained even more with this brother. As a matter of fact, he quickly made a name for himself in this new country with every martial artist he met. Over time he taught me the entire system as he knew it. I am very fortunate to be his brother. Upon my Uncle from Holland's passing, my older brother was named 'pendekar agung', and carried the lineage torch of this system.Since I was diligantly training ,and have aquired an amazing understanding myself, proudly my brother named me the 'maha guru' of this system. This is how I have become a teacher, and bearer of the Martial understanding known as Sera. With patience and dedication, I have the ability to guide a student through the entire system, from the basics all the way to the most complex and intricate understandings. Come see what we do. If you like it, and you are of good moral character, loyal, and dedicated, I will teach you in the ways in which my brother taught them to me. You too, can aquire the abilities if you listen and take notes, train very hard, and look for understanding in everything that you do. Why would you have to go any farther than that? Even though Paul and Victor parted ways, Paul did not strip Victor of everything that he learned. Why not just explain that he and his brother had a difference in opinion as to whether the art should be mass marketed to the public. Do you have to create a different source or lineage? How about letting your ability stand for itself? Do you have to create a fable about being in the military just to give yourself street cred? Even when your last name alone is associated with one of the higher level martial arts to even make to America? Can a few untruths snowball down hill to eventually create an avalanche? Apparently it has. Just look around at this thread. I was refered to Andrew's post, and all that followed, by a few other martial artists whose teacher was also jilted by yours. Do I have hard feelings? Abso-friggin-lutely!!! Is a "FORUM" not a place to have discusion and debate? According to you, it isn't. Is there a sign on the front door of MAP reading "do not argue with post authors, even if you have reason to believe they are wrong"? I'll peek into my magic mirror and dare to state that you read the recent posts very early Monday morning and spent the last day composing your defense. Pretty spooky that I knew that, huh? Kind of makes you think that I may be in the proverbial 'loop' of people that you are close to. My instructor was burned by your "great professor". He gave his loyalty, tenacity, and dedication to your school only to find 'half truths'. To learn that in the higher levels it is common to spend a lot of time bad mouthing former high level students. That is why I'm %*$$ed-off, Mr.Monyet, Ed, Bernie, whatever your name. Damn straight I'm mad! Then Andrew comes in promoting an article, which itself is already full of decieving statements that will potentially mislead a whole new generation of students. Sell the TRUTH! If you have a 1984 Chevy Caprice, don't slap Cadilac emblems on it, forge the title, and sell it as a 2006 CTS. If you do that, someone will catch your deception. Especially the people who were around in 1984 driving a Chevy Caprice. Although my style of writting is not as 'eloquent' as your's, or refined and professional as someone like Mr. Steve Perry, I still speak from the truth. A truth which I have developed a passion for, much like the passion little Andrew displayed at the very begining of this thing. You, whoever you are, defend these 'untruths' too. We have become advesaries through this medium. If you must persist in this vendetta, produce a hint of proof that I was wrong in any of the statements that I made. - Was Victor a United States Marine? -Does he have high-level degrees in Mechanical Engineering? -Did he learn his Sera from Tisari Mardjuki, and not Paul? -Is he really the only person in the USA qualified to judge if a person is worthy of teaching Serak? -Is he really deserving of the ownership of an Indonesian word describing an 'owl', or 'hoarse voice'? Or is he just an aggresive capitalist? -Did he fabricate stories of the Serak Lineage to demonstrate the seperation of himself, and the brothers who taught him so much and were opposed to him trying to "get rich" from something that was passed to them by their distinguished departed uncle? -Can you produce proof or actual historic references that the entire content of the April 06 IKF article in question is true? -Is the truth pertinate to a healthy teacher-student relationship? Is it true that he claims people such as the honorable Guru Stevan Plinck are the ones being misleading about Serak? Well? It's a public forum. Care to speak about what's true here? If it isn't the truth, you might as well market it as "fat-cat harimau". Well?