In A World Without Kuk Sool?

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by Herbo, Aug 10, 2008.

  1. Herbo

    Herbo Valued Member

    After a while of watching MA demo's on Youtube I started to wonder what MA i'd do Kuk Sool didn't exist. What about everyone else?

    Would you still be doing another martial art that you gave up? Or is there another style you could see yourself doing if there was no Kuk Sool? Or maybe you might not have started training all together and you could now be a pretty awesome golfer.

    A bit random I know.
  2. hwarang cl

    hwarang cl The Evil Twin

    Most probably Judo.
  3. Willow

    Willow Valued Member

    I don't know. I found Kuk Sool because I could not find a Hapkido school (I had done that for 2 years before moving to Austin) that would work. It was close enough in style, had some stuff that seemed interesting (weapons), and I really like Master Lee. I probably would have just looked at different schools for something that seemed to be a right fit and not necessarily gone shopping for a particular style.

    If I had decided not to do martial arts again, I would have taken up tennis again.
  4. Herbo

    Herbo Valued Member

    I used to do karate but I doubt I'd have ever gone back to it, I'd have probably taken up wing chun or another more fluid martial art.

    Any reason why judo hwarang?
  5. psbn matt

    psbn matt great sage = of heaven

    shaolin kung fu
  6. coc716

    coc716 Just Some Guy

    What drew me to Kuk Sool was, for a lack of a better way to describe this, the "combination" of Hapkido and Chinese martial arts. So if Kuk Sool wasn't around back when I started (and I didn't have the same problem Willow did... no real Hapkido schools in the Austin, Texas area) I probably would have done Hapkido. Actually that's how things went: I was looking for Hapkido, found Kuk Sool and thought "all the better"!

    If Kuk Sool suddenly dried up today and I had to find something else, I'd probably go Filipino. Their empty-hand work I think complements much of what I like in Kuk Sool. The weapons work I also find more practical. I mean, I really don't care for sword...pretty, nice training tool, but totally impractical. I've only so much time in a day so I'd rather study things that I can actually use, and for me a sword isn't something I can use (I don't do SCA, LARP, Hollywood, etc... I can't walk down the street with a sword for self-defense). I like weapons like knives, sticks (dan bong, joong bong), cane... FMA is right up the alley here.
  7. JSun

    JSun Valued Member

    Well, since I moved away from my kuk sool dojang I started brazilian jiujitsu, and I'm absolutely sure I made the right choice. I'd say my ground game has drastically improved in under 8 months. I've also picked up new drills and exercises that would benefit any martial artist.

    One of the reasons I made the decision not to drive to a different kuk sool school was that I became a bit jaded with the quality of the bb's at the dojang I was at. I understand the ranking system in kuk sool and how every school is different, but the black belt that teaches at the Gracie academy I'm at is absolutely not someone I would want to tussle with in a dark alley. I respect that from a martial arts instructor.

    If I had to choose a different art, it would probably be thai boxing. Since they also teach that at the school I'm at I guess it would be the next logical choice. :cool:
  8. coc716

    coc716 Just Some Guy

    :topic: At the risk of going off-topic....

    To me, that shows that it's more about the instructor/school than the art itself (tho there's no question the art can matter). I mean, Dewain Perry was (is) incredible and certainly not someone I'd want to mess with. I got into it enough times with him to know he's got legit skills. :fight1:

    Still tho, the bottom line here is that you know what YOU wanted and what you want to become, what you want to study, what you want to improve at. You realized you weren't on the path to your goals, your environment wasn't going to get you there, so you took corrective measures and are now on your way to where you want to be. That's all that really matters.

    I've said that I must get Kyo Sah Nim rank (just my own personal goal), and I'd like to get Pu Sah Bum Nim. But after that point I don't know if I'd want to stick around in WKSA because when you get to that level you get sucked into the association and politics and drama there, and I really don't want that. I have enough drama in my life -- martial arts is supposed to be my escape from drama. :meditate: I like the art enough that I'd like to study it for as long as possible, but if I gotta get sucked into the politics and b.s. well... then I guess my FMA study will start in earnest.
  9. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    I could be missing the point of the thread, but I am beginning to wonder if folks are really aware of what a dismal failure KUK SOOL WON is from how it was first represented.

    If the original idea of KUK SOOL WON was to present a synthesis of Korean traditions or practices after the fashion of the Chinese GUO SHU ("national methods") of the 1920-s and 1930-s than I have to say that someone really dropped the ball.

    First off, I don't see that what is used in the KUK SOOL WON "textbooks" reflects much more than a hodge-podge of material taken from various practices available to the local entrepeneur in the Korea of the 1960-s. I'm afraid this is not the same as saying that one has put together a practice which is representative of authentic Korean arts.

    Secondly, I am not so very sure that the material that IS offered is taught in a way that reflects the origins of a given bit. For instance, though superficially similar, Chinese CHIN NA and Japanese JU-JUTSU have very different biomechanics and are based on very different premises depending on the art. A person simply can't grab one technique from col "a" and another from col "b" and expect it all to work together without a hitch.

    Thirdly, since the recent court actions in Korea, the KUK SOOL people have been deadly quiet about the historical and philosophical underpinnings of what they do. I would almost go so far as to say that they have become reclusive rather than own-up to the need for revamping their art. My thought is that if THEY can't own-up to things, what hope is there for anyone other than the uninformed to take an interest in what they have to offer. Thoughts?

    Best Wishes,

  10. LoneStar

    LoneStar Valued Member

    The only hope anyone has who is uninformed as has interest, is actually practice Kuk Sool Won with one of it's masters. It's a tradition that is passed on from Master to student - That is the only way an uniformed person such as your self will ever have any hope with satisfying his interest. How do you expect to learn anything about Martial Arts in your books?
  11. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Sorry, LS, but thats a not-so-very-sophisticated side-step of the issue.

    You and I both know we are talking about transparency rather than simple information. Why pretend differently? Do any of these KUK SOOL people ever actually reflect on what they are told within the context of the last 150 years or so or is it all just a matter of gullibility and naivete'?

    Speaking for myself, for instance, if someone asks me about my family, or my MA career, I can provide a pretty good record of who did what and to whom. Why is it that when we start talking about history in the Hapkido arts that things suddenly start getting all vague and non-specific? Whats up about that? If I started training under one of the KUK SOOL masters, LS, are you saying that they would suddenly become transparent and disclosing about their history and their origins??

    Best Wishes,

  12. Bahng Uh Ki

    Bahng Uh Ki Valued Member

    While this question isn't directed to me, I feel like I may jump in.

    I don't see a KSW master willing to spend much time talking to a white belt about the origins of the art. Study, and be patient. I do agree that you can't really get much of a flavor for the art by studying the books, although I suppose one could search out among masters in other disciplines to get most of it taught in a similar fashion, since that is how Kuk Sa Nim learned it in the first place. While one may think of all the different KMAs jammed together as one art to be a disjoined hodge podge, it doesn't come off that way at all.
  13. Bahng Uh Ki

    Bahng Uh Ki Valued Member

    While this question isn't directed to me, I feel like I may jump in.

    I don't see a KSW master willing to spend much time talking to a white belt about the origins of the art. Study, and be patient. I do agree that you can't really get much of a flavor for the art by studying the books, although I suppose one could search out among masters in other disciplines to get most of it taught in a similar fashion, since that is how Kuk Sa Nim learned it in the first place. While one may think of all the different KMAs jammed together as one art to be a disjointed hodge podge, it doesn't come off that way at all.
  14. coc716

    coc716 Just Some Guy


    Ok, you are taking this massively off-topic. If you want to keep pursuing it, start a new thread.

    And you might also want to search the archives here too, as the history issue has been beat to death already. :bang:
  15. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    I think I understand what you are saying....but it sounds very much like I would have to "buy-into" the program before getting the information, which does not allow for much of an objective review. One of the major arguements in presenting MA history is that some of the most passionate representations concerning a tradition come from people who are heavily invested, emotionally, with said tradition. Unfortunately, such people are not the most objective reporters.

    Please understand that SUH In Hyuk putting something together and representing it as his idea of what would be a good "national art" for the Korean people is not the question. I think its a worthy goal and a worthy effort. But I also think that it should be represented like that to the consuming public and not as a series of vague allusions to past individuals and events. In like manner I think that LEE Joo Bang and his HWA RANG DO could be held to the same standard.

    The subject of the thread is "In a World without KUK SOOL?" and I think the point I am working towards is that, in reality, we do not have a "kuk sool" or a comprehensive system of "national methods". Rather, we have a system put forth by its originator as a possible candidate for the position of such system. Thoughts?

    Best Wishes,

  16. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Sorry you feel that way, Coc. And if the original intent of this thread was just a bit of whimsy, I heartily apologize and sure wish someone would have pointed it out earlier. Without a disclaimer I tend to take threads at face-value. In this case, the idea was a world "without KUK SOOL". I was positing that we seem to have this already and was checking to find out if my conclusion might be amiss. So far it does not seem to be. As I pointed-up in my last thread, what we seem to have is a construction by an individual to fill a perceived need for a "national martial art" with the originator firmly esconced in the top spot. All well and good. No problem here. How about we just present it that way, yes? Thoughts?

    Best Wishes,

  17. Willow

    Willow Valued Member

    Welcome to much of the oriental MA culture.

    You are still off-topic from the original post. The original post (as I read it)was directed towards those of us who practice Kuk Sool. If there was suddenly no Kuk Sool, or Kuk Sool never existed in the first place, what would we (practitioners of Kuk Sool) be doing with our free time? If we were to take another MA, what would it be?

    The issue of the history of KSW has a history of its own on this board and I'm sure you can find many threads to that effect or you can start your own based upon your specific question/comment.

    I think you will find that for most of the members of this forum (who are not KJN and above) it boils down to us being dedicated not to the organization, but rather our own particular Masters/schools. You will find many posts along the lines of, "If Master/KJN X left KSW I would follow him/her. I would miss what I get out of belonging to an international organization, but I'm really just committed to my school."

    I would go so far as to state that many (if not most) posters view it as a style of KMA and not what, as you state, it is purported to be; a cummulative study of all KMA combined into one.
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2008
  18. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Thanks, Willow; your points are very well made.

    Let me just offer a sincere apology for taking in this in an ill-advised direction and step back a bit. Thanks again.

    Best Wishes,

  19. ember

    ember Valued Member

    Back ON TOPIC:

    If there were no Kuk Sool Won, what art would I study?

    I'm not very sure. Before Kuk Sool I had already started Tae Kwon Do and Shotokan Karate. I wasn't interested in continuing the karate. I had looked into TKD when we first moved to Houston, but that just wasn't the right time. When MA practice became a *need* once again, if KS wasn't around, it's quite possible I would have gone to the TKD school.

    On the other hand, I recently found a list I had written just before moving to Houston, of things I wanted to learn while I lived there. Included on it were Tai Chi and Aikido. So it's also possible I would have started with those arts. (In fact, I had also checked out the Tai Chi/Kung Fu school in Clear Lake a time or two.)

    Now that I'm once again away from KS schools? It's very hard to say.
  20. fightinchance

    fightinchance New Member

    I've heard TV Kwan do is good too. You learn all about the chi of the remote control, it takes ALOT of practice, but by the end you can really improve your surfing capabilities, which brings harmony and peace to a home. *sigh*:hat:

    My real answer is that I would just do SOMETHING else, I didn't Choose KSW to begin with. It was the only thing available. I actually might have skipped Martial Arts all together and found a different form of excersize.

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