if you dont belive.. just read and open your imaginless minds

http://www.aikidovt.org/aikidodef.html

aikido is linked with samurais and samurai with ninja

at the end ninjutsu "is" aikido

 

So why do you think you know more about these arts than the people who are training in them? That is of course assuming that you are trying to be on the level and not just being a troll!

Oh yeah and as you've been told before it Ninja not Ninjas :bang: :bang:

 

i didn't said that, they know more of the subject of course, but they cannot see and cannot understand that is a big relation between the ninjutsu and aikido, just cause it is not writed on any peace of paper. i am just triying to make a relation that is not official, and for that they are punishing me.. lol. but they cannot disagre with what they not belive.

 

Ok so lets work on the basis that you are not a troll, just because I'm feeling nice!

Please explain to me in your own words what this link is and where it comes from.

First off give me a definition of both arts and the Ryu associated with them. Then go into the history and show me the link.

Also could we please have some details of your training history i.e. What arts have you or do you study and is English your native language?

 

In all fairness to Pakau.

To a degree this may be correct. Morihei Ueshiba apparently did train with the Kuki family for a time, studying Kukishin Ryu and one would therefore assume he had some training in the battlefield combat methods of the samurai.

http://www.shinjin.co.jp/kuki/hyoho/impact3_e.htm

This is also mentioned on page 77 of Ueshiba's biography "Abundant Peace".

IIRC, Hatsumi sensei discussed the aiki concept at the United Kingdom Tai Kai in 1999, the theme of which was Kukishinden Ryu. However I don't have the video to hand so please excuse me if I'm wrong.

EDIT - I should point out though that this in no way qualifies Paku's statement that Ninjutsu=Aikido. However, they may be distant cousins.

 

Is this not the third time this has been posted?

 

Haven't done any Kukishinden yet (well that I know of ) but I didn't think it was under the heading of a Ninpo Ryu?

Yeah but taking his logic further you may as well say BJJ=Ninjutsu!

 

i am from portugal
my inglish and portuguese are bad.lol
this link is some link i saw.. but why are you saying i am a troll .. prove to me that samurai and ninja are not toguether on the same battle.. and also prove to me that i am wrong when i say aikido is the arte of samurai.
i studied karate, muay thai and jiujitsu.
belive me or not .. i feell that aikido is the same as ninjutsu for many reasons.
i feel that is a relation between this 2 arts and ways of revieling it.

 

No worries on that front my Portuguese is non existent

Because you've made this post three times now and have ignored the posts and requests by others members!

Ok before we go any further you are the one making the claims therefore it is down to you to provide the proof!

No one has said they did not fight alongside one another. The interchange between Samurai and Ninja is covered on this forum and others, you just need to search a bit.

No Samurai would have used it why? As Dave Humm said it was created after the Samurai class was abolished.

So why is it the same? First of all we have to establish your understanding of the two arts. If your understanding is skewed then any assumptions you make will be based on error. So what is your definition of the two arts?

 

Well that answers the grammer question.

If your coming on this forum making a statement based on a weblink.

A website can be put up by anyone, its not proof.

Do some research not just from webpages but from sources that will hold up to examination.

Research Ninjutsu.

Research Aikido.

Research the plural usage of Samurai and ninja.

Search posts on this site for information about Ninjutsu.


Then ask some more questions.

 

Hi Pakau

Aikido absolutely is not/was not the art of the samurai. It was created long after the time of the samurai. It is a composite of several different systems and concepts. Primarily:-

Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu
Kukishin Ryu
Ueshiba sensei's own individual thinking based upon his own experiences.

Apart from anything, we are now several generations further down the line and so the relationship between Aikido and the battlefield methods of the samurai classes is even more distinct.

Aikido does not equal Ninjutsu

Aikido was not the battlefield method of the samurai or even the peacetime method of the samurai.

However these things could be considered distant cousins in the sense that there are links.

However if you would like to pursue this line of thinking, why not train in both the arts and then compare them? Be warned that this will take many years to achieve a meaningful answer! And it may end up not being the one you thought it was.

 

BJJ diferent from Ninjutsu and aikido. aikido and ninjutsu have techniques from JJ but is not the same. jiujitsu is a art of direct contac. aikido and ninjutsu are the art of self confidence.

 

Again this is all going to come down the the following request which you have missed. So I'll post it again.

 

please, please stop now.

Take the advice given, learn and grow in the process.

Otherwise your just not going to make any sense and people are going to consider your age to be 13 rather than 23.

 

I'm waiting for Dave to post

 

Let me set the record straight for a SECOND time.

Aikido is a derivative of several influences.

The key here is "derivative" and "influences"

Aikido is not directly connected to samurai arts although it is fair to say that there are aspects of the system which may be closely links however; and this is the important bit...

There is no conclusive proof that the founder actually studied a koryu sword art, it appears that aiki ken has some influences from kashima shinto ryu however, no formal proof exists that Ueshiba EVER ACTUALLY learned the system.

Additionally, Daito Ryu whilst considered to be a major influence in the kansetsu waza of aiki taiso; may well be newer than people first expected.

Now, Aikido is a gendai art, for anything to be considered "samurai" in orientation it would have to have existed pre Meiji Restoration.

Indeed many Koryu arts which exist today, which existed during the feudal era of Japan do not refer to themselves as a "Samurai" art. The term "Koryu" aptly describes the origin.

If we're discussing the indigenous cultural and social aspects of Japanese society and its close connection with BUDO in general then, I would be happy to concede that Aikido rates within that label however; Aikido is no more associated with Samurai classes than Goju Ryu Karate.

Now lets get to Ninjutsu. What exactly are Ninja ? Essentially nothing more than well trained covert soldiers skilled in espionage, guerrilla warfare and assassination. I seriously doubt that apart from discussing specific examples of people proven to members of Ninjutsu clans, that we could easily associate Aikido, an art recognised in the 1940's with a form of covert warfare which can be linked to pre Meiji era.

All that said, I get somewhat jacked off repeating myself to individuals who turn up here with pubescent attitudes and expect to be taken seriously.

I said this in the Ninjutsu forum... I smell a Bullshido troll at work here, and even if your not from bullshido, you're pretty much wasting your time with your naff attitude.

 

i am listening to MWDAndy ins the one that has no 2nd words and he as no wrong ideas about me sorry the others. you are great to ..but just tell me what do you studie (school) ?

 

Well me? Well I'm in the Bujinkan which amongst other schools, if you don't know, has Ninjutsu Ryu and I'll go out on a limb here and say has a general Ninjutsu flavour running through it. Oh yeah and I do Systema

Not really to do with wrong ideas MWDAndy isn't saying you are correct. He is saying that one of the Ryu-ha within the Bujinkan has links to another Ryu-ha that using the word Dave Humm used "Influenced" Aikido. Again there's the key word.

Don't just listen to those who you "think" are agreeing with you. There are a lot of members on here you really know their stuff.

 

Before we go any further, I think you need to read the Terms of Service http://www.martialartsplanet.com/maprules.htm which you agreed to when you signed up the for forums.

 

i am not saying he's with me.. i am just saying has no 2nd thougts about me.. i hope so i is just trying to have a nice talk. i am 22 not 23 i am still a child and i am proud of what i feel.