Just seen this clip on youtube but cant recognise what group they are. I am not going to criticise whats displayed here, but I will say its a lot better than a lot of stuff I have seen. In fact its nice and crisp and clean technique. The techniques demonstrated seem to start off with Asayama Ichiden and then go into Kukishin and Gyokko Ryu etc. they also seem very Genbukan in approach and I actually thought that was what I was watching except I couldnt recognise the Japanese instructor (If he is Japanese) nor the badges. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xnvs7JJqfQ&NR=1&feature=fvwp"]YouTube- My Official Shodan Test[/ame] Garth
Just out of curiosity... why does she keep stepping back and putting her hands bang over her crotch? Is this their version of the whole kamae/zanshin thing like what is seen in DRAJJ and Aikido?
The audience will note that I have nothing up my sleeves.... http://www.lininja.com/About_our_Founder_Kyoshi.html Thus my reputation continues to have win For my next trick, I will saw Garth in half
Patches don't match. I thought the same thing - ran down the same link as well Manga. But the pics don't line up. -Daniel
Hissatsu, have a look at the dojo windows in the back of the video clip. Compare it to the image on this page. Look at the mat colours too (green with red edge mats). http://www.lininja.com/About_our_Schools.html Also, the comments on her You Tube page specifically mention the fact that she trains/trained at the Hanata Dojo with "Kyoshi".
Also, if you go to the gallery of black belt students, they are wearing those patches, same as in the original video clip. Tiny wee images but you can still make them out.
I thought the instructor looked a little bit like Ken Harding, but am not sure. http://mbdojo.com/new/2009-KH.htm
You guys should know better than to doubt Manga. It is Li Ninjutsu. They were Genbukan but are now independent. There used to be a letter on their website re leaving the Genbukan. Now it is just touched on generally in his Bio.
From his website Quote"The title of Renshi is acquired through a special ceremony bestowed only on direct students of Tanemura Soke and quoted “this is for people whom he can trust with a pure heart.” Tanemura Soke many times said Allie was like a son to him, with a knowledge and spiritual ability far beyond his years. Allie tested for Renshi in front of 250 students in Colorado, where he sat in seiza (kneeling - sitting position) with Tanemura Soke in front of him with a bokken, with no advance notice Soke Tanemura would swing at lighting fast speed at the students top of his head. Allie evaded the strike on the first try. “I thought everything was odd, I sat in front of Soke and my heart was beating unusually fast, I slowly controlled my breath and eventually could feel Soke’s heart beat, we were in sync and then he cut. It felt as if everything was in slow motion. I then rolled, he smiled and I passed the test. Later on, I asked Soke if he felt the same connection and he smiled and said yes, we are connected, spiritually.” Allie has told this story to many of his students. Later on Allie asked his top student Frank Olmeda who was there if the cut was in slow motion, still not believing he had experienced Mushin – Frank Olmeda replied “it was lightning fast, I didn’t even see it.”Unquote Can any of the Genbukan guys confirm or deny any of this chapter or even the statements?
Norm, I don't see this 'Allie' on Tanemura sensei's list of instructors (which has this at the end "The people listed above have truly achieved the title of Renshi or above. I, Grandmaster Shoto Tanemura, and we, the Genbukan and KJJR Shihan-Kai, do not know and do not recognize any individuals claiming the titles Renshi or Kyoshi in our line except as above."
Maybe if you leave they take you off their list. Not something they would do of course in the Bujinkan. Garth
Did some more digging Okay, so it seems like this fellow is the Genbukan's equivalent of SKH To-Shin-Do "There are many rumors within the internet community and other Genbukan members as to why Allie Alberigo is no longer affiliated with his Japanese teacher. To honestly and truthfully put an end to rumors, Since 2007 Allie Alberigo had decided to take a different path. Allie decided to concentrate solely on his students, and the growth of L.I. Ninjutsu centers. There are many Kans (family lines) Genbukan, Jeninkan, Bujinkan etc. Without adding to the negativity and rhetoric of people who are ignorant to the truths Kyoshi Allie decided to separate from the political mess and stand on is own spreading his 4 decades of martial arts experience. His goal is to have the largest individual Ninjutsu School on the planet. Some may immediately have comments and say this is due to greed, or monetary goals, looking for a way to publically discredit, but this is entirely not true. The goals are to continue to teach and spread the virtues of the martial arts as well as spiritual training. The real lesson is summed up in this one statement by Allie Alberigo, “After all these years, I want to stand on my own two feet and develop a legacy, just like the masters of the past. Unfortunately as most martial arts teachers who are the head of their system, they will take heat from negative people. I want my track record to speak for itself. Also, it seemed I reached a time that I wanted to take my 4 decades of training and experience and put together a system of Ninjutsu/Ninpo and Ju Jutsu that I felt was applicable to the 21st Century. I don’t only teach martial arts but also life-skills. Our approach at L.I. Ninjutsu Centers is a combination of old virtues with new technology. My success record with students stands above the rest. I have hundreds of Black Belts who have gone on to unbelievable heights, such as Police Officers, sheriff's, Secret Service, C.I.A., F.B.I., Doctors, Lawyers, Heads of corporations etc. A good majority of my Black Belts have been training in our schools for as long as 18 years, and the average around 7-10. If even some of my teachings have helped them achieve the successes in life they are experiencing then I am honored and have done my job. In closing, there are many people out there that love to say negative things about everyone. There is a saying that people who spend more time talking about you, is due to their lack of confidence and ability in themselves. If they feel the need to focus on me, my schools and what I am doing rather than perfecting themselves, then they are truly missing the point! I ask that you come to my school and experience what we have developed curriculum, atmosphere, brotherhood, family and intensity over the last 18 years and counting and decide for yourself. If it is not right for you, then you can move on, if it is, then welcome to our family!” Allie Alberigo 6th, dan" At least he's up-front about no longer being affiliated with Tanemura sensei, unlike our equivalent who sells this. That being said, I find his whole 20th century adaptation thing as ridiculous if not more so than Hayes' because Tanemura sensei already has a program specifically for modern combat based on his police experiences and I put a lot more weight in his ability to develop appropriate henka than in this Allie Alberigo fellow's.
Garth, I figured it was something like that, I had to go fix something downstairs midway through my post, but now I've posted it so you can take a look.
JibranK posted Personally I dont think theres anything wrong with Stephen K Hayes selling that image. He trained with Hatsumi for many years, it was in his books when he was a member of the Bujinkan so i dont see an issue. I can see that it might make some people uncomfortable but theres nothing particularly wrong with it. After all there are many peple that have a picture of Takamatsu on their walls but few if any have actually met him. I dont find anything wrong with an adaption of classical ninjutsu to modern ninjutsu. What i do find starnge is when people teach classical ninjutsu as a martial art that would work today and then needing to teach a modern combat programme. if classical Ninjutsu works why do you need a modern combat programme? Garth
He's probably been to Japan, probably not to Hombu, but whether he's been to Hatsumis house I dont know. But does it really matter?
Garth, all I'm saying is that Tanemura sensei, someone who was not only a police inspector for years but also a soke of a number of styles and a menkyo kaiden holder of others is in a much better position to develop a modern programme than Alberigo is. Furthermore, to the best of my knowledge, Genbukan Ninpo Bugei and Kokusai Jujutsu Renmei are taught in a relatively koryu way aren't they? And therefore Tanemura sensei teaches his Goshinjutsu programme seperately. (Note, I'm not saying that the traditional systems are not applicable to modern situations - simply that the modern henka and the traditional kata seem to be taught seperately. You were in the Genbukan so you'll know this better than I - let me know if I have anything mixed up.) Whereas in the Bujinkan, it is one system and there is not a structured curriculum per se so a teacher would have a bit more leeway of what to teach (for example, Don Roley mentioned going over taijutsu of guns with Someya sensei) As for the picture being sold, the issue I have with it is that it is Soke->Soke->student but that is a small thing.
Joking aside, The subject of the thread just seems to be another in a long line :bang: If he left the Genbukan then why is he still using a title that only pertained to that org? Does my head in! If you've left then you've left you don't get to pick and mix the bits you liked and sell yourself off the back of someone else. If you feel the need to "dress" your new "thing" with the trappings of your old art then maybe you should of stuck with it. It's like the bloody Budo Pirates you get who go around jumping from Kan to Kan, picking bits from different things then selling it as their own! Ok rant over
It doesn't I was just curious because between all the "he said she said" over the years the only good indicator of things would be if he was actually training.
Jibran khan posted Jibran i agree with what you are saying but i'll attempt to add a few points from my perspective. That maybe true, and I'm not going to comment further as i just know it will lead to a flame war. When I joined the Genbukan what Tanemura taught was strictly Ninpo and this is what I was interested in. Then as time went by suddenly he's a grandmaster in this and that. I remember for example in Leeds when he first showed Yagyu Shingan ryu and my thoughts were "Where did he learn that from"? Then came Asayama Ichiden ryu. Then in Brighton suddenly he decided to teach jujutsu and he had all the students sit down and he dictated the Jujutsu sylabus and I remember him saying that if you are black belt in ninpo you are a jujutsu. Then in Belgium he suddenly stated he was a grandmaster of Yoga. I remember a good friend saying to me as we walked down the street in Leuven following Mr Tanemura to a restaurant "My girlfriends been studying Yoga for 20 years and shes not even a grandmaster" It was a year or so after that I left. I had little if any interest in these other schools of Yagyu Shingan ryu or asayama ichiden ryu etc. Dont get me wrong loved the ninpo, but we seemed to spending less and less on Ninpo and more times on things like Paqua. Which is kind of in regard to the point that Dean was making when he said... Loved the old art, just didnt like the new stuff we were doing. I'm not even going into all the so called mystical stuff he talked about which kind of grated on me as an atheist and skeptic. You can read the amatsu Tatara magazine if you want to read about all that rubbish.
