Ideas for SD demo for abused women

Discussion in 'Women's Self Defence' started by Remi Lessore, Jul 4, 2014.

  1. John R. Gambit

    John R. Gambit The 'Rona Wrangler

    Congratulations Remi and Adrastia. It sounds like you two collaborated well and Remi and his student offered a great a class as a result. I'm pleased to read about your collective success. :)

    Adrastia, I'm curious, do you have any personal lesson plans for at-risk under 18s that aren't focused on just female students? I'd love to hear your ideas sometime if you do.
  2. Adrastia

    Adrastia Valued Member

    Thank you for your kind words. I was motivated to respond to Remi and offer suggestions because he asked for help and seemed to honestly appreciate suggestions. And, importantly, he would be offering the session in any case, with or without additional help from others. For that reason I was willing to offer my point of view and experience based on many years of working with women on safety and self protection. Also, I've had experiences with threats, assault, coercion and the need for self protection. And I have been on the receiving side of MA classes, self-defense trainings presented by men to women.

    John - I appreciate your inquiry but have no lesson plans offer initially because I only work with women and girls. i may have some helpful ideas and I'd be glad to share and discuss ideas here with you and others.

    Here is my point: the great majority of SD instructors (for women) do not know their students concerns, experiences, threats, resources, skills, fears etc. If you read Remi's comments - and others - following my long post outlining a session and also his reports as he developed his plan and reported on the session afterward, you will see that he was surprised or had not thought of many of the points i made. This is NO criticism of Remi. I respect him greatly.

    However, this highlights my assessment that most instructors (SD for women) teach their sessions as though they were teaching other men, just smaller, and with 'different equipment'. They do not spend much time, if any, learning and constructing instruction from the POV of their women students. They assume they know all they need to know and press on regardless. Problems in classes or drop-outs are not the result of mis-steps by instructors. These are because of the women students 'lack' of committment, serious attitude, etc. This POV can be seen in many instructors assumptions about groups of students.

    I do not have the preparation or understanding to teach at-risk boys under 18. So I would not be the right person to do that. I'm very willing to offer some questions and suggestions about these students if that would be helpful. Are you thinking about doing this?
    Please let me know your thoughts.

    with respect A
  3. ArthurKing

    ArthurKing Valued Member

    Can I just add a pat on the back to Remi, his student/helper and Adrastia. If I had come across this post earlier I would have been one of the nay-sayers. I have worked most of my adult life with young people at risk/looked after/excluded from school etc, mostly male. For me the primary issue with any group like this is safety- will they feel safe with me, will they behave safely with each other, are the short term physical activities as safe as they could be, are the long term goals/techniques safe?

    Without a degree of comfort, security and relaxation, very little is achievable in terms of learning. Creating this kind of space and good learning dynamic is the hardest part of workshopping/teaching and is something it is very hard to teach, requiring a great deal of empathy and sensitivity.

    I have learned a lot from this post and have been most impressed by Remi's lack of ego and dedication to doing a good job and by Adrastia's clear understanding of her field. Well done all.

    P.S. Other posters- it is not appropriate to refer to women as 'ladies', it's kind of sexist and patronizing, as if their 'genteelness' was of any relevance whatsoever.
  4. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    You might find it that way, it's not an observation I've ever heard before. I refer to ladies as ladies: that's the way I was brought up. I find it difficult to see general good manners as sexist and patronising.
  5. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

  6. John R. Gambit

    John R. Gambit The 'Rona Wrangler

    I'm in the early planning stages of some ideas to expand our SD-based children courses in my area. If I can generate enough collaborative interest with local MAists (I already have one school on board, apparently) that won't require much active participation on my part (health limitations), then yes, I am planning to do that; only for little boys and girls both. I'd like to design something focused on active meditation strategies for kids, environmental awareness, how to notify trusted authority figured when in danger, and strategies to avoid predation from bad adults in their personal lives while informing good ones. I hope to bring in enough female MAists and fathers, ideally. It's a long-term goal I don't expect to happen quickly. (I have a family of SD instructors and bodyguards to draw on for advice who visit me in town regularly.)

    Anyway, I don't wanna distract from the topic of adult lady SD further. Thanks for the input. :)
  7. Count Duckula

    Count Duckula Valued Member


    But then I would agree with you because I am one of those monsters who holds the door for a woman.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2014
  8. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member

    For those of you wondering where this went:
    Well, it went quiet for a long time (well into September). Then the shelter contacted us and asked that my female student continue the classes (- not me!). So I will call her the Instructor from now on. In fact, she is qualified as an FEKM instructor
    The shelter explained that while I had related well on the day with the ladies who were present, it would be easier for their client base to engage with what the shelter were offering if it was run by women for women. While I am not 100% convinced that this is the best thing, we respect their request and the Instructor went in to run the sessions.
    Unfortunately these are far less frequent than weekly, so a stark choice has to be made as to what is covered.
    We discussed it with the Instructor and bearing in mind the demographic of the students - already quite tough and street wise - rather than focus on preventative safety, which would need scenario training, walkabouts, etc. she decided to begin with physical techniques - palm strikes, elbows, knees, kicks, and releases; and general comportment - things that can be repeated every time they meet.
    This physical focus is also what the shelter wanted, having discussed the matter with their clients.
    Awareness (they are already pretty aware) and prevention will figure as their physical competence and confidence improves.

    I anticipate that many will view infrequent physical training as unproductive and possibly even dangerous.
    I would like to say that by it's nature Krav Maga anticipates this - it was conceived to teach a disparate group of people usable techniques in spite of infrequent and irregular training. The pedagogy works strongly towards making the moves assimilatable and memorable. Still, more training would be good and we will encourage it.

    I will let you know how it evolves.
    In the meantime HAPPY NEW YEAR
  9. Indie12

    Indie12 Valued Member

    Pepper spray? Legal law of use of force? Firearm disarming? Ground?

    This is what we include in our program and it's been very successful in saving women's lives!!:D
  10. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Well, it would be 50% irrelevent to women living in London.
  11. Wildlings

    Wildlings Baguette Jouster


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