Idealist/Realist or Capitalist?

Andy, wrote:

"...I find it difficult to follow what you are trying to say here, and I imagine that I am not alone..."


The difference between debate and discourse should be pretty clear. You have done a very good job of raising a *debate* on this issue. By itself, that seems like a very good thing.
However, that debate has done little to offer any solutions, which is fine, since that is not the purpose of debate. Like fighting, the purpose of debate is to create interest and provide a 'winner'. Winning a debate, or a fight, does NOT mean that the underlying problems have been solved.

As somone who works towards researching solutions to these very same issues, I mentioned that I didn't find debate to be useful at providing answers, although it was useful for sparking interest. That isn't a criticism in any way shape or form. It is merely a comment, along the lines of "You've done a good job of clearing the brush with that chainsaw, now maybe we should go in with tweezers and pick out the little pests that are causing the root problem".

Now that you have done a good job of pointing out the problem, maybe we should go in and look at the little factors that are causing the root problem. Idealism and Capitalism are broad concepts, not little root factors, so lets look into some more useful terminology.

All of the above is my poor attempt to politely suggest that we drop the usual internet 'keyboard commando' tactics and work on some solutions, instead of trying to score points on each other.

Take care

paul

 

Paul,

I never asked for a debate. The post was never intended as a For/Against discussion. If anything, the heading covered the initial statement, and was asking, What do you think I am, what do you think I should be? If I had a 'debate' every time I asked people for an opinion, then I would be a very busy guy.

Yes, finally,that is what I have been saying all along. Cooler was wise enough to start the thread 'Commercialisation', in connection with the 'Capitalist' part of my title. Hence the issue became more focussed. Hence Melanies thread on the 'McDojo'. Looks to me that clearing the path with a chainsaw as you put it, is exactly what was required!

So when you say 'useful terminology',do you mean more specific threads, like Commercialisation, Standardisation or something else?

Taken as read. That is why some of the sentences in my posts to you have question marks at the end. I already made the same comment about point scoring elsewhere, so I am in complete agreement. I will not sit back and take it though!

My Dads bigger than your Dad. LOL

Andy

 

Bob,

I agree with what you are suggesting, in terms of breaking down this topic and performing a more detailed analysis. In particular :

was one of the issues I wanted to cover under 'Standardisation', but you phrased it perfectly here.

The story goes that in the orient, rival instructors would just beat the **** out of any rival instructor that were not any good. Instructors were proficient about practical application of techniques because they needed to be. We surely need some kind of body to do the equivilent in todays legal world.

Either that, or Myself, Andy Murray and Cooler will have to 'do the rounds' around the clubs in Scotland!

 

Ah, HKF,

may I forward Fraser Halliday to be our fourth Musketeer, our Dartagnon. A quest.........to horse my friends!

 

All for one and everyman for himself!!!

 

OK, the one thing I have not seen answered is which do we see oursleves as, a realist, an idealist, or a capitalist?

Rob

 

Realist for me

but i do agree with you for some places i have gone to charge lots of money (say £6) for an hour but talking from experance its these people that get the people into their hall as for me i charge £2.50 for an hour and £3 for an hour and a half at my club, so it got me thinking if i charge say £15 for 2 hours i should get about 30 to 50 students in the door, but this is when (and it happens) instructors see pound coins or $ walking in the door and not people! and its these people (students friends) that maybe in years to come take over what you are doing

 

I suppose in life, I am a bit of a capitalist (wife and kids does that to you).

In Martial Arts I am an idealist and would happily start a club where I charged to pay for the hall and nothing else.

However, I am also a realist and know that I do not have the time at present I would need to dedicate to teaching.

 

In some ways I can be an idealist. Ever since I started doing Matial Arts 11 years ago, I have always wanted to learn "sacred" styles, Shoalin Kung-Fu in particular, unfortunetly I dont see any way to make that dream a reality, my realist side taking over. Sometimes you just have to work with what you got. TKD and JKD may not be Shaolin Kung Fu, but its a start. Its good to be an idealist but you have to keep it real at the same time.

 

I often wonder why people want to teach. Some people will see teaching as the next stage in their learning process. Others will see it as only teaching, and for what other reason would you do this than for money or ego? I’ve always enjoyed training with teachers that want to learn more than teach. They’re main goal is learning and improving themselves, but in their development they will involve the class also and all their motives are likely to be genuine. Do you want the teacher that doesn’t learn? The teacher that runs the club?

Even for the teacher with good intentions it must be difficult. You will teach people for free, yet your responsible for paying rent and other bills and keeping on top of paper work and legal regulations. Its become a job already, and you’ve committed yourself to the lease of a building for so long! You train the students well, teach them like you we’re taught, concentrating on certain techniques over and over while people get bored and numbers decline leaving only the serious students. So what do you do, the one thing you said you never would, teach the flash moves and make it fun.

How can one person be a school? Should the school be a democracy or have a dictator. I prefer a club where people can join, work their way up the ranks and have a say in what happens ie the club is owned by its members. Politics is never going to go away, as certain people will kiss ass and get themselves in better positions than others and they’ve probably long since lost that first love of martial arts. I stay out of the politics, which means I also have little say in anything

I still have no problem with the main teachers making some money, as long as the students get good value for money, ie being a hell of a lot cheaper than joining a gym But ask yourself will these same teachers hang around when the numbers go down and even teach you in their own living room if necessary!?