I have 3 broken fingers...

Discussion in 'Women's Self Defence' started by Artemisia, Dec 7, 2013.

  1. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Which is why the guys from the UK have replied as they have.
  2. hardball

    hardball Valued Member

    Thanks, missed that one.
  3. Count Duckula

    Count Duckula Valued Member

    Carrying a baton in London is a great way to get a state sponsored holiday. :)
  4. Count Duckula

    Count Duckula Valued Member

    Doing anything if you don't know how is a good way to get your ass kicked. That's like trying a throw or shoulderlock if you've never practiced it. Sure, if it is that or get your ass kicked, you've got nothing to lose. But for the point of preparation, relying on something you don't know how to do is bad advice.
  5. Mazulu

    Mazulu Valued Member

    I'm lucky to live in a place where being attacked is just not something I worry about. However, I do support everyone's right to self defense, even if that means carrying a fire arm or protecting one's home with a firearm. Breaking and entering someone's home should be considered high risk (that you might get shot). Of course, in real life, you don't have to let a situation escalate. A couple of weeks ago, some guy in a white van pulled into my driveway, got out, and tried to enter my home. I blocked his way with my arm and asked him where he was going and who he was. I thought about getting my gun, but I felt like it was neither necessary nor appropriate. It turns out that the guy had the wrong house. I also think he might have been intoxicated or in some way not all there.

    I'm having trouble finding a youtube video of what I'm referring to. It has to do with dealing with bullies. If a bully is harassing you, you step back into front stance, hold up your hands like the picture below,
    and yell, "back off". The total effect is that it communicates to the bully that you don't want to start a fight, but that you're also in a fighting stance. The bully looks at your body language: your hands are saying: I don't want to fight. But your front stance says: I'm trained to fight. If the bully has any sense, he'll realize that bullying you might not be a good idea.
  6. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    You're describing the fence, which is a common and effective technique.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6CdH6xHcgo"]Blauer - Flinch & 1st two secs of a fight - YouTube[/ame]

    This is good, but be warned there could be very bad language in this clip.

    Part 1.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6OJnZG3joA"]The Fence - Geoff Thompson - Clip 1 - YouTube[/ame]

    Part 2.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FGLhlakkUk"]The Fence - Geoff Thompson - Clip 2 - YouTube[/ame]
  7. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    If you watch JWT's videos on the SIM days, or have the good fortune to train with him, you'll see this used all of the time.
  8. Mazulu

    Mazulu Valued Member

    I'm not saying you should pick a fight when you're not trained. I'm saying that if you're attacked, you should fight back (if you can't escape). If someone is trying to attack you, beat you up and/or rape you, you don't just let them do it. If you can kick, then kick them in the shins, knee caps or groin. If you have to, you should strike them in the throat. You should fight off your attacker any way you can. I would hope that a martial arts forum would encourage self defense.
  9. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    A few points in regard to how the thread has gone while I've been enjoying a Saturday night beauty sleep.


    Almost anything CAN be used as a weapon. Whether you can or will do that depends on how you train. It is illegal here to carry something for the purpose of using it as a weapon. Whether that's a good or a bad thing is not the subject of this thread and not a useful discussion for the OP.
    It is not illegal to use a weapon at hand in self defence. So if you are being pestered and you grab a bin lid, or a bucket full of cleaning fluid, or a mop, or a knife in a struggle etc, you aren't breaking the law.

    Hard targeting:

    This is multi faceted. There seems to be a confusion in some of the posts above between prevention and cure.
    In terms of prevention: environment. You control this as best you can by choosing where you live, where you work, where you socialise, and how you move between the two. Websites like the crime maps at http://police.uk are very useful in helping you make simple choices that immediately lower the risk of you becoming a victim without further thought.
    Now there's you. How you look and how you move. How often do you see nature videos of Hyenas attacking a Lioness? People who's body language shows confidence, alertness as to their surroundings, and athleticism/coordination are less likely to be attacked than those who don't. People looking to attack/rob are more likely to go for someone who is displaying wealth (a casually held bag or phone), showing tiredness or lack of environmental awareness, and not making eye contact (not eyeballing though - that's a challenge).
    You are less likely to be attacked as part of a group than on your own. However if you have a group that is dizzy/loud/oblivious to their surroundings then that group may look attractive.
    Most sexual assaults on women are not from strangers but from people they know and trust.

    The subject of fences has come up. If you pass the initial interview to be selected for an assault of some kind (generally robbery or sexual assault for women) then a sudden show of bravado and a strong looking guard is unlikely to deter the aggressor who has already psyched themselves up for an attack of some kind. Women are more likely to be robbed with no demands and snatch and grab than men - men are more likely to be 'interviewed' first with questions to assess the likelihood of resistance or as a distraction/con tactic.
    I would advise having your hands high in a placating manner rather than a combative manner. The aggressor has already made their choice, they are unlikely to be deterred by a strong front or deescalation at this point, but you can forewarn them. High hands prime you for a preemptive shot and set you up to defend your head.


    Kicking is great. I love kicking. But it's hard for most people to do under pressure.

    I look at combatives from this point of view - in a real situation you are likely to be faced with the following things:
    HAOV - habitual acts of violence
    Close range
    Contact (actually hitting people)
    Verbal Abuse and distraction
    Multiple opponents
    The more of these you deal with in regular training the easier it will be to access your skill set, the fewer of these you work regularly or have experienced before the harder it will be to access your skill set.

    In this video I show the results of 4 years of scenario training with martial artists from a broad range of styles. These are all the kicks attempted in all the scenarios we ran, and I include some high ranking martial artists in that mix.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PCBEHi49OU"]Kicks in Self Defence Scenario Simulations - YouTube[/ame]

    Work on your kicks by all means, but they are low percentage probability. Your forearms and your knees are your friends.

    According to the most recent CSEW your average risk (by age and sex) of becoming a victim of some form of violent crime is 7.3%. That's pretty low given that it includes a huge range of factors (location, behaviour etc) that you can control to reduce it further.

    If you want to find out more about violent crime this is a good starting place:

    If you want to find out more about the law and self defence this is reasonable:
  10. Count Duckula

    Count Duckula Valued Member

    Which is silly really.
    If you are attacked, you could e.g. use a flashlight to defend yourself. But only if you didn't think of it in advance. Because if you ever thought 'hey this could be useful' then you're breaking the law.
  11. Mazulu

    Mazulu Valued Member

  12. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    I wanted to include this in my last post, but a safari/iphoto glitch prevented me. Now on firefox.



  13. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter


    No, it's very sensible.

    It is not designed to stop people using weapons in self defence, it is designed to stop people from deliberately arming themselves by carrying objects that could harm others, which in turn reduces the risk of random violence escalating from cuts and abrasions to serious injury and fatalities.

    You are perfectly entitled to have a solid flashlight in your car, or in your bag, or in your coat pocket. You might carry it for self defence and have chosen it for that purpose. That only becomes illegal if there is no other reason for you to have it on your person if searched or if you use it that way. So if you live on a street with no lights and on the 21 June you have a heavy flashlight to hand at 6pm and are searched while walking down the high street, and on questioning there is no reason why you'd not be home by 8pm, you'd probably be cautioned. On 21 December with the same itinerary you would not.

    This is OT though. If you want to start another thread about the merits of an armed society v an unarmed one and get a British/American polarisation yet again... start another thread, but I can almost guarantee it won't last long! :)
  14. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I have a question about target hardening it doesn't derail the thread too much. Isn't there a balance to be found with appearances between stopping being picked as a target and making yourself one? Like to use myself as an example, John and Simon you've both met me and know I'm not exactly an imposing figure or look like someone better left alone. A few years ago I walked very quickly, head down and hands burrowed in my pockets which I imagine made me a tempting target for anything from mugging to general harrassment. Now I tend to walk more confidently in an attempt to fix that ("strutting" I've been told before, and I at least know I'm more open than the hunched posture I used to have) but doesn't that open you up to other problems? You lower the risk of being mugged or something which is the important part, but doesn't it open you up to more social type violence? As in, drunk people or chavs who think you look more confident than someone your size/appearance has a right to?

    I imagine its about striking a balance between walking around peeking around corners and walking around with your trousers low and swinging your arms like a chimp but its something I've wondered about with regards to whether defending against one type of violence can open you up for another
  15. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    This is easier to demonstrate than describe!

    If you were to be in one of my lectures on the subject you would see me
    Walk small steps, head down,
    Move confidently at a relaxed brisk but not rushed pace head up, looking around, but never staring at anything for long,
    Skip like Michael McIntyre,
    Strut like Perry in the Harry Enfield Show.

    There's a balance between confidence and challenge.
  16. hardball

    hardball Valued Member


    How did I know you would chime in? ha ha ha If I had time or even cared I would post references, footnotes and bibliography.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2013
  17. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Go ahead, but in a different thread. But (looking around and finding my cool velvet Doctorate in history hat) whether you were referring to English history or Okinawan history, you'd be wrong. :)
  18. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Don't feel sorry for us. It is extremely unlikely that I or anyone I know will ever be the victim of gun violence. The same cannot be said for you.

    Here's an experiment for you. Go buy a TapouT shirt - that pretty much screams 'I think I'm an MMA tough guy'. Now walk through a dodgy part of town. How far do you get before a local thug decides to pick a fight with you? Repeat the experiment with a plain shirt.
    I guarantee that you will get more trouble wearing a shirt that marks you out as a martial artist.
  19. Dave76

    Dave76 Valued Member

    OP- Surely talking about this with your current instructor is the best way to go about this. They know what things you already know and to what degree you know them. They should be able to suggest types of responses that you already know or suggest slight modifications to them for your current injury.
    Also if you haven't read up on some of the stuff JWT was talking about I find it very interesting as well as useful.
    JWT- Thanks for the video of kicks!
  20. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    I'm an ex Ninja, you won't see me.

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