How does aikido teach striking?

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by Mitlov, Sep 5, 2010.

  1. izumizu

    izumizu Banned Banned

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    Ahh, yes. Here in the states I've called that the "Scottish Kiss."
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010
  2. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    The "Irish handshake".
     
  3. Archibald

    Archibald A little koala

    Ok here it is

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FtBYr3d4lY"]YouTube- Yoseikan Aikido kakari geiko[/ame]

    Francis - kensei1984 - is in the brown belt in this vid, I'm in the orange. This was taken about a year and a half ago, and I cringe at a lot of it, but heck that's learning for you.

    There's also another bout that I couldn't edit out, with Vinicius and myself. It contains some atrocious groundwork that I'm ashamed of, but I feel I've turned a corner since then :p

    Part of being able to train in this manner is being comfortable with your partners - Francis and I have been training together for a long time, so we don't feel bad about 'hurting' each other, because we know there are no hard feelings. Easier said than done with some people.
     
  4. izumizu

    izumizu Banned Banned

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    And at this age? So youthfull looking, you both must have some great instructors/sensei's!!!!! I would have no problem with you walking down the street in let's say, manchester, protecting my grandmother. In fact, I would rest easy at night knowing she was well protected. Can't wait for you to make shodan. Keep up the hard work.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010
  5. izumizu

    izumizu Banned Banned

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    Additionally, the souffle (as it is called in wrestleing) that you attempt to execute at 2:58, is a very advanced, and precise sutemi/kaeshi that very few people are able to execute properly. Like I said, no qualms about you protecting my grandmother, can't wait for you to make shodan!
     
  6. izumizu

    izumizu Banned Banned

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    Irish handshake? Remind me not to kiss, or shake/touch hands...
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010
  7. Archibald

    Archibald A little koala

    Hi izumizu,

    thanks for the compliments! As I said, my kakari geiko is looking a fair bit better now - I don't spend as much time 'on the back foot' (which got me clobbered in that video) and the bouts tend to be wrapped up much quicker.

    For your enjoyment...

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tABDdxxV1Yc"]YouTube - Black and white fight[/ame]

    Some more, this one from my 1st kyu exam. Sensei Hegarty in the middle, according to him "struggling to find a spot amongst all the blood and feathers".

    Thanks again for your kind words. And yes, we are truly lucky to have the quality of instruction that we do here in Perth.
     
  8. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Archibald, thanks for sharing. By the way, there is a nice grappling drill you can try if you get a few people together. Have two attackers, and practice using one of the attackers as a body shield against the other attacker. It's only a drill, but you might like how it changes the dynamics of grappling and striking. We did some of this type of training for battlefield type conditions, since you were already low to the ground (you did not want to stick your head up because that's where the bullets were going).

    Your video reminded of something, also. And that is keep an open mind when it comes to tactics and strategy.

    My long time karate instructor from way back, used to tell me his tactic was to wear out the opponent and this had worked for him against bigger, stronger, and tougher opponents. In boxing, for example, there is a good bit of circling and back pedaling. This all to make yourself a harder to hit target while being part of strategy to wear down the opponent, tire them out. Then explode through them, when they are unprepared.

    In fact, training in tactical firearms, we did many drills back pedaling whilst shooting at targets, until we could get behind something solid for cover. The idea was you were a better shot than the enemy, so by being a hard to hit target and increasing the distance, they would more likely miss, but because you were trained to hit while moving, you would still hit them.

    This might seem the opposite of what is taught in Aikido. This is hardly the decisive attack, the attack with intent, that it appears uke must do. But in principle, it is the same, IMO. For example,

    1) The principle is to have a superior attitude (fighting spirit). Wearing down the opponent is one method for breaking the spirit of the enemy.

    2) The principle to go from 0 to 100% in an instant... this is shown by the ability to explode through the opponent when they are unprepared (open).

    So to inspire uke to attack with "intent" is not to attack with force (as it doesn't take only a few pounds of pressure of a sharp knife to cut to the bone). No it is an exercise in them learning how to apply constant forward pressure, the ability to explode (0 to 100% in an instant). When uke demonstrates explosive, dynamic attack, then that is all the "intent" shall be needed. The first step is that they have more weight going forward (they are not leaning on their back foot).

    And uke must develop fighting spirit. This is developed through hard work, down seven times, up eight!

    So there is no one way to teach an uke to attack with intent, because there is no one way to attack. Just principles... constant forward pressure, explosive application, and superior attitude. At which point there is no uke or tori, you are both uke and tori.

    IMHO.
     
  9. izumizu

    izumizu Banned Banned

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    even better! Even tho your partners should be attacking, and not waiting for you on the ground, I like the fact that you hardly spend any time on the ground at all. Quite impressive. Thank you very much for sharing!
     
  10. izumizu

    izumizu Banned Banned

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    Blood amogst the feathers? As one who has watched a couple of few **** fights in my time (I share this with you) I am of puerto rican discent, I can understand the reference made to yin and yang here....seek it out, follow it, it is the path!
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010
  11. izumizu

    izumizu Banned Banned

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    Yes, you are on the right track now, we call that "stacking."
     
  12. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Archibald

    Liked your videos.

    Anyone can learn techniques but not everyone can learn real fighting spirit.

    The severe training that some of us went through under Chiba shihan was his intention to develope instructors. Since he had to make a living from the number of students he tended to a bit "lighter" on many. BUT they ALL were out of their comfort zones.

    As for teaching I tend to teach basic principles for quite sometime before allowing techniques. Beginners tend to have quite a good time at first because they are allowed to hammer on techniques on higher grades.

    It is only once training has toughened them up that we shall begin applying techniques.

    I like your attitude.

    regards koyo
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010
  13. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    Archibald--

    If even 10 percent of aikido dojos brought the sort of intensity and realism that's shown in your videos, I think it's safe to say that aikido would have a very different reputation than it does. I love those vids. Best aikido videos I've ever seen in my opinion. Thanks for sharing.
     
  14. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    Mate you're a legend... you said you were going to post video of resistant Aikido and you totally came through. I was really worried that I was going to be dissappointed - I wasn't. Those videos were great mate.

    I especially liked your entry and takedown at 1:23.

    Yeah the groundwork wasn't the greatest but it was no worse than what gets passed off as newaza in the gendai Jujutsu schools I've trained at and the standing work was more intense and more proficient. I didn't think Aikido trained on the ground anyway... is that something you study through Aikido or is that from cross training?

    I just want to echo Mitlovs statement here...

    I totally agree.

    I think the videos highlighted how the punch catching and serene manhandlng of multiple opponants that you see in Aikido demos is a total fantasy and that real aggression is both chaotic and unpredicable. So refreshing to see an 'uke' not just giving their balance up or diving into ukemi.

    How many Aikido dojos train like you... a handful at most I would estimate - and that's a real shame.

    Thanks again.

    EDIT - It also highlights the importance of grappling at clinch range and on the ground.. something you never really see demoed in Aikido.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010
  15. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Actually it shows the importance of not grappling :evil:

    I had a hard time with not grabbing in Aikido. At the time, grappling was seen as grabbing, which was done in Judo, but not done in Aikido. It wasn't until years later in my BJJ cross-training and in FMA knife training that it came to understand what my Aikido instructor meant by grappling.

    Grappling was the first learning stages of close in combat. However, to grapple meant to lock up and eventually this leads to a contest of size and strength. On the other hand, an advanced grappler is not engaging in a contest of size and strength, instead it more about, gaining and holding superior positioning, leverage, pivot points, constant pressure, unbalancing and mobility. The complete opposite of "locking up" with an opponent.

    More than a few times, I've heard, "BJJ isn't grappling, it is Jiu-jitsu". The same goes for Judo and really good wrestlers.

    In the last video, there was not a lot of locking up with enemies... this was a good demonstration of principles and training, IMHO.

    P.S. nothing wrong with grappling, IME, as long as a goal is to maintain mobility... thereby staying true to the principle of maximum mobility and minimum movement.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010
  16. izumizu

    izumizu Banned Banned

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    Sounds kind of like the same principles one would use whilst standing, no? And it should indeed sound the same...just because you are on the ground doesn't mean everything else doesn't apply now; just my opinion/observations.
     
  17. afhuss

    afhuss Valued Member

    I find that is absolutely true. We were working on transitions/leads from the rubber guard into sankaku jime tonight and it was totally the same principles of working with momentum as in aikido and judo.
     
  18. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    O Sensei and all of the original aikidoka stated that aikido is a self defence art and that we MUST assume the possiblity of more than one opponent and that a weapon may be involved.

    The action of taking one man to the floor and controlling him would only be done if there were no possibilities of multiple opponents or weapons.

    Suwari kneeling techniques are developed to that if taken to the floor or taking an opponent to the floor the ability to stand up immediately is there.

    Those who do not have such techniques are in true danger in a real attack.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2010
  19. afhuss

    afhuss Valued Member

    ...only three of us showed up in class last night so we decided to spend some time working three BJJ transitions one of the guys learned at his BJJ school (we train JJJ, among other arts at my dojo). We also did some aikido ukemi drills, Judo calisthenic/skill drills, shihonage (tai otoshi variation), jo kata #5, and a sprinting drill where someone calls a direction change and if you catch the person in front of you you get to throw him five times. All in fun, and not typical...but fun. And the corollaries between aikido and JJ principles really struck me last night.

    I practice JJJ because its challenging, not self defense.
     
  20. Archibald

    Archibald A little koala

    Hi everyone,

    Thanks for the kind words...I'm glad you enjoyed them.

    The first thing you learn when doing the futari dori (two person - taking) is that you can't allow yourself to be 'engaged' with one of them - either standing or on the ground.

    Rebel wado, you're right....grappling at it's highest form is there not to 'tie up' an attacker, but to dispatch him as fast as possible, where a strike may not be as efficient.

    The yoseikan Aikido school contains elements of karate and judo, put in place by Mochizuki after finding he had to use them in challenges when spreading Aikido to France, so we know the basics of how to get to get back to our feet when engaged on the ground.

    Glad I could demonstrate what these principles look like when applied and trained properly. It makes you appreciate the integrity of instructors such as my own, and MAP's very own koyo who help keep the 'martial' in these martial arts.
     

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