Honor in Martial arts philosophy

To me honour is a standard of ethical conduct. If you behave consistently in a certain manner, you can be called honourable. Of course the standard varies from culture to culture (To be honourable is to have a positive reputation).

If you have a personal honourcode that differs from the culture your in, it won't do you much good, unless the people you'r dealing with has a great deal of respect for other peoples individuality...

Something to note is that for instance honesty which is considered positive in most cultured, was not so appreciated by the samurai... to lie to protect someone elses honour was considered honourable (from what I've read).

 

Which brings into question the often quoted.."A samurai need not give his word the mere fact that he says it is enough"


Like my attitude to philosophy I think the truth lies somewhere between idealism and reality.


regards koyo

 

I think you might be understating this Bill. You have the finest library on japanese culture and history I have ever seen. However it's typical of Bruce is instantly negate the value of film as a medium of information and inspiration. You just have to watch films like the twlight samurai, hidden blade and after the rain to understand the value of the medium.

The Bear.

 

Agreed Bear but I am inclined to think that those excellent films you mention would be "boring" to most "martial arts enthusiast" compared to the Lone Wolf series..if you take my point. (no pun intended)

I was inspired to take up JMA after seeing Seven Samurai . A lot of today's martial artists were inspired by Enter the Dragon.


regards koyo

 

So as it seams, truth feeds legend, though absolute truth is lost. What tales of chivalry will be told of our time I wonder?

So with honor within MA, it is personal responsibility only? I agree with you Koyo - you should confront the situation, and Kwajman, do you then hold them accountable for their actions when your students do not hold to a higher standard, and how do you do that? (obviously they don't have to kill themselves as in Samurai times, at leat I hope not.)

Thank you all for your insightful posts!

 

Sensei does not mean teacher as we understand it. It means "one who has gone before" or example. Therefor a sensei should be an example that sincere students wish to follow.

A true sensei shall be aware of this and set a responcible and sincere example free of ego and politics that sincere students shall follow because THEY want to.


regards koyo

 

Excuse me for saying so, Koyo, but you just made exactly my point. IME most people are not in love with the MA as much as they are in love with the idea of the MA. In like manner, I don't think most people regard the Japanese Samurai as honorable as much as they are enamoured of the idea of the Japanese Samurai as honorable.

Since the matter of movies came up, and SEVEN SAMURAI was mentioned, you may want to read-up on Kurasawa's comments regarding the nature of the Samurai and why they were portrayed in the manner that they were in the movie. I think it might give you pause. The goal of the media is to satisfy a need of the consuming public and this rarely has anything to do with accuracy.

As far as Honor goes, if people are seeking after it, turn the TV off and look inside of yourself. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

I would agree with your first point there Bruce. The second is too speculative.

So, knowing that people fail to meet the standards we believe doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for them ourselves. Especially if they never existed.

I disagree with this. We cannot create an idea of honour in a vaccum. Your society and culture determine what your definition of honour would be. TV is a part of that culture. It's ok to be inspired by TV, Movies or Books. They often show how we would like to be instead of who we are. There is the first step to honour.

The Bear.

 

Bruce I have read up on Kurisawa,his influences and intention in his movies although when asked to explain them he said if he did there would be no need to make the movie.

The seven samurai were not stricktly samurai they were ronin and the point was they had more honour and compassion than those in power.

Most of Kurosawa's movies depicted the samurai in unpopular ways and refused to romanticise them.

regards koyo

 

And that is exactly where I stand with the KMA for myself. IMHO there is entirely far too much romanticizing done coupled with far too much martial theatre. MA of the past were not glorious warriors fighting valorous battles against the forces of Evil. They were everyday folks with average skills who found themselves momentarily in extraordinary circumstances and sometimes made extraordinary decisions or might have done extraordinary things...maybe.

When it comes to warriors of the past the trick is not to be the warrior, but to strive to be what that warrior tried to be. We see the same damn thing today with people talking about the heroism of the modern battlefield. I have some Class A information for anyone listening. Heroes are just guys busting their butts to do whatever will get them out of the situation ASAP and who were recognized for it because for that single moment the individual's and the military's goals happened to be one in the same. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

To hell with King and country you are fighting for the guy next to you and to get back home in one piece.


regards koyo

 

excatly, thas how it is when u get right down to it

 

FWIW ~ I think the just fighting to get home theme ~ is a generalization. From what "class A" information I have of the modern battle, that's only true in SOME instances. There ARE extraordinary individuals in ancient times and modern times, yes your normal person, but with real virtue/honour/valor. It's not legend, and it's not just one guy trying to cover his own self and get the heck out of dodge. That's a very cynical point of view, and motivates only selfishness.

Why do we romanticize honor, is it because that is what we see in our subconscious as how things should be? Is it because there are a valiant few who set the standard, and that is what we are trying to live up to? Or is it what we were taught was honour?

This was my problem with MA, I had in my mind that a MASTER of an art should have honour, he should be an example of honour. I have found very little of that in MA. I have met men of honour, I have friends who act honourably, within and without the MA. Sadly mostly outside of MA. I had one 'master' who exuded nothing but the opposite of honor, yet his lower ranking peers passed him in every definition of the word, while he sat there and slagged them off for their lack of 'skill'. What would I rather have, skill or honour? hmm that's easy.

 

For myself, I see quite a bit more utility in the concept of Honor.

We have circumstances around the World where there is terrible hardship as a result of a relative few who let their greed and ambition carry them away. As in the World generally, one cannot legislate Morality and when it comes to the Free Enterprise System we hope that people will "do the right thing". But when they don't do the "right thing" there is not a helluva lot folks can do about it other than pick-up the pieces afterwards. I think having the self-regulating nature of Honor might help where Laws, Rules and Policies can't. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

If you want to know about martial arts, you can learn proper about this art. This art give you honor easily.