Exposure to release kicking! I have posted in reguards to 'release' kicking on this and a couple of other threads here. ONLY a few Hapkido people have actually understood the differences between HKD (release) and TKD mechanics. American HKD is one of a limited number of posters who have had the opportunity to see the theories in practice and learn the physiological, mechanical and kenetic theories behind this lineage of kicking. Although it must be noted that even within this lineage there are some nuances. Contrary to some peoples stated opinions, the diversities are NOT primarily related to hip thrust, roll or push. Rather, the fundamental differences are found in the body mechanics to lift the leg and the use (or lack thereof), the leg muscles themselves during and the execution of various kicking techniques. In addition, the use of weight transfer and slow to faster theories are also in evidence. These theories are not specifically limited to Hapkido, but are more related to the time period in the early to mid 60's in Korea. Hwarang Do's founder Joo Bang Lee uses very similar kicking theories. This was a period when many talented martial arts people were involved in the original KIDO Federation's formulation and most modern Korean style Kwans were recognized. Exposure to these kicking mechanics can only be achieved by direct exposure to the limited number of Masters who were themselves introduced to it. Some 2nd generation Hapkido Masters are quite familiar with it but, very few actually teach them due to the time required to develop it. (Not commercially viable on a large scale). I have been exposed to and trained under (for various periods of time), more than a half dozen 2nd generation Hapkido Masters..only 3 of those had detailed teachable knowledge of these kicking theories. All of these had exposure to the early 1960's Kido group, not just GM Jae Han Ji but other dynamic kicking practitioners. Perhaps the greatest Hapkido kicker of his generation was Master Hwang In Shik. His dynamic kicking techniques can be seen in the Jackie Chan movies Young Master and Dragon Lord among many other films. Only one of countless history versions.. Keith Stewart Head Instructor East West Hapkido
As usual... great post! I recently bought a copy of "Young Master" on DVD at Giant Tiger for $5.99 (USD)!!!!!!!!! How awesome is that? I've showed to everyone and totally love it. Thanks for the recommend!
I find it hard to distinguish types of kick...we just kick. Im not sure if im taking about the same types of kicks you are but snap kicks are faster and can be followed easily by another kick.
Kosh: This is a prime example of why Hapkido is becoming a generic name. Kicking is NOT just kicking (although even 5th degrees on the forum have tried to defend this statement)..there are more than a half dozen kenetic, mechanical, physiological theories. You have proved my point. The ability to analyse all kinetic theories is being lost do to the commercialization of all martial arts. "Snap" kicking is NOT by any stretch of the imagination faster then "release" kicking in freefighting applications. In addition, the "knock down power" of snap kicking is not even in the same universe as "release". As I have posted if.. you have not seen or been taught this method of kicking you have not idea about its benefits.. Keith Stewart Head Instructor East West Hapkido
Greeting, I'm a student of Ji Han Jae and the kicking style he teaches has a few kicks that could be snap type, but I would say that most of the "Real HKD kicking style" meaning the styles taught by Ji and other 2nd generation HKD is not snap type and is not done like TKD or TSD etc. The problem today is many HKD instructors originally learned TKD, TSD as youngsters before they were old enough to do HKD and never bothered to learn HKD kicking. Hapkido style body motions required in the kicks are subtle and take time to develope and could easily be overlooked by all but expirienced well trained Instructors. In fact Jackie Chan, Hwang Ik Sik, Angela Mao all use the HKD kicking method and Bruce Lee (see enter the dragon for good HKD style kicking from Bruce).
shadow warrior: What i meant was that we dont give kicks names, so i dont know what a snap / release kick is by name. I just know actions.
I have studied 2 styles of Taekwon-do the first was old style ITF ,ie TAGB-"Tae-Kwon-Do" and a few others for people here in the uk, and the second which i'm still doing is the modern ( I guess) itf style "Taekwon-Do of which I prefer the kicking techniques of the latter as they are more scientificly sound. I also study "Hapkido" or Hap-Ki-Do not sure ? under International Hapkido headed by Fred Adams and have found the kicks more familiar to the older style of taekwon-do, however when the crap hits the fan I wouldn't care which one worked! although I have to say since starting hapkido I found the most common kick I would do is a football style swing or a stomp coz I usually have the guy on the ground anyway....yes i know a bit thuggish but I would think hard before I did it for real!. might be the wrong thread to ask on but is anyone else here in the UK studying hapkido under fred adams org?
Hello, I first met Fred Adams around 1980ish, at 14, have known him ever since. His Hapkido is second to known. I am currently his highest ranking student in the US. Just returned from Korea and can tell you in no uncertain terms his material is the closest to the founder Choi's material I have ever seen. Fred will never steer you wrong with training, he is a very good man - he has always treated me like a son -
I have been lucky enough to have so far been graded by Master Adams Snr and whilst I don't know much about the various versions of hapkido which are around I would agree fully that he is a very good man and wouldn't steer anyone the wrong way. I have always been very impressed by his knowlage not only of hapkido but of other styles and his impressive teaching and down to earth manner. This has been passed down also to all his black belts as they are too shining examples of hapkido and martial artists in general. He has recounted many stories when we have been grading and has mentioned some students in america so perhaps he was refering to you iron ox? but don't worry it was all good!
hmm a. and why is a snap kick better for this? b. have you ever seen or experienced the other type of kick for comparison?
i dont like twisting or thrusting the hips out,people think you kick harder that way because of the resistance you get, its ALOT easier to just turn the foot around instead,you get the same power alittle more speed and its a hell of a lot easier
a. because you pull your leg back instead of following it through b. ofcourse, we spar in hkd (and even more in tkd, which i also practice in) and if you follow your kick through, it'll get caught, and you don't wanna feel a fist on your shin (or an elbow): it hurts like hell for a second - a leg lock is also possible
i am not sure what kind of kicking you are doing but when we do release kicking at the club we do not leave our legs hanging out. i think you have some misconceptions about what release kicking actually is. also there is a lot more to release kicking than, "kicking through" go back and read some of the earlier posts in this thread by my instructor keith (shadow warrior)
release actually kicking kicking OR actual release kicking... everything you say here is wrong or misunderstood so may the fist be in you all
sorry i edited the typo... to expand, as far as i can see there seems to be 4 groups of hapkido kicking. 1. the traditionalist - we only kick to set people up no flying kicks etc. 2. tkd students - studied tkd first generally and moved on to hapkido. their kicks tend to be influenced heavily by tkd mechanics. 3. follow through - generate power by simply kicking through the target, generally powerful but not fast. 4. dynamic release - should generate both power AND speed. use the whole body to kick and natural rebound to return the leg. this is how i see it.. maybe i am wrong or missing something.
Greetings, Many children or young people in MA start in TKD or TSD and when they move over to Hapkido later on their kicking tends to stay more like TKD mechanically speaking. But they are unfortunatly missing the fine point of Hapkido kicks which are "soft style kicks" much like many types of Kung fu. Hapkido kicks are very powerful and geared primarily to strike vital points of the body. Also many of you talk about Hapkido sparring which is wrong. Hapkido is not a sport martial art as TKD is today. The founder Choi Yong Sool and Ji Han Jae never advocated Hapkido sparring because you can't really spar using the true techniques. I'm not trying to get into a sparring discussion but sparring is for sport purposes only. You should try and research Martial Arts of old the only "real matches" were life or death type or where one player was mortally hurt. And please lets not get into the UFC or stuff like that it's not the same thing.
All though i do agree with on the kicking part of your post i have to respectfully disagree with you take on sparring. Certainly there are aspects of the art that are hard to impossible to test in a sparring environment, but i think there is still a very large percentage of hapkido training that benefits greatly from this back and forth free fighting exchange. hapkido is an eclectic art that prides itself on being effective in all ranges. seeing as this it the case there should be room for all forms of training that will help you accomplish this goal. free fighting with another resisting opponent is integral to this.
(bolf face added - Thomas) Philosophically speaking, I'd have to agree with Wild Pitch here. We do quite a bit of free fighting, usually with some sort of restrictions or rules in place or with no rules. We usually reserve the "open" free fighting to our Hapkido people with a decent amount of experience. I think it's a really good way to try out your techniques against a resisting opponent and see how they work. I think there is a difference between sparring/free fighting and in "sport" fighting. I like free fighting in my Hapkido class but probably would not ever organize a "Hapkido tournament". I think there is a distinction. On those same lines, the Hapkido DVD "Pro-Hapkido Championships" shows a regional style open tournament where Hapkido practioners competed under a decent rule set and tried out their stuff. I don't think the experience hurt them at all and probably strengthened them! Here's my review of the DVD: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12631 (post #2 = rules, post #7 review)
