Historical Pankration Training Guide http://www.historical-pankration.com/article-training.html For people interested in the reconstruction of ancient Pankration or pangration.
If people are interested in pankration, I recommend reading Michael Poliakoff's Combat Sports in the Ancient World. It's not a technical manual or recreation. He's an historian. Fascinating read.
Seen some pankration on Human Weapon, looked alot like and was described as the precursor to MMA. Baza
i briefly perused the links. did you use anything other than ancient artwork? like were you able to find any texts in ancient greek? or stone carvings? just wondering. must be hard to try and deduce a fighting style from an artist's interpretation. clearly, if that's all you have, that's all you have. really just wondering. this is all really fascinating. kudos on doing this. as a greek american myself, i think it's great.
As far as re-construction, wouldnt Jim Arvanitis's stuff be a source as well? Think hes been at it since the early 80s.
It was. Greece had wrestlers and boxers, and then pankrationists (who combined both). They fought for trophies and cash awards. Very similar. And well in advance of the Gracies. Modern Pankration, whether Jim Arvanitis or the folks in Greece, is a re-creation based either on historical evidence or on a more generic combination of (kick)boxing and wrestling.
Sadly it is far too long dead to be accurately reconstructed. Nearly every recreation I have seen captures the "spirit" of Pancration rather than the art. MMA is as close as any of those
Yeah, that's definitely a concern. Because they're basing it on writings or illustrations on vases, etc. If we were trying to recreate the art of boxing based on a review of Rocky movies, we'd be missing the mark (good as those movies are). And the writers don't necessarily understand what they're depicting. They're writing for interest, not technical accuracy.
Yeah but it has a growing number of practitioners, in Greece anyway. So is it fair to say then that the guys who are recreating and practicing the art can't be considered professional in the art? or can it actually be classified as a martial art at this point in time? Baza
If what they're practicing makes sense, then yeah. Game on! As Hannibal said, Modern Pankration can certainly be inspired by historical pankration. The only question is whether it's a reliable re-creation of it. If that's what someone was touting, I think that's an issue. If it's an internally consistent, workable martial arts system, I've got zero problem with calling in pankration. In Greek, it's basically the equivalent of "mixed martial arts" anyway. It apparently means "all powers." In other words, boxing, wrestling, kicking, etc. EDIT: I think this is also different from some of our Western martial arts brethren who rely on working from texts. Because the texts they're working from were actually written as instructional manuals rather than purely artwork.
Thats a separate issue - You can be an expert or skilled in anything you want, but if you are claiming or selling it on the back of a historical lineage then you had better have one. Basically modern Pancration only shares a name with it's ancestor Edit: pipped by Ap
Yeah i agree with this. On Human weapon they had a guy that claimed to be from Spartan blood and that he had as you say "the Spirit" of pankration. I'm pretty sure he was selling it. Baza
Yeah, that's a bit of marketing. But that's what consumers want as well. You wanna train with Christos, the guy who does IT during the day? Or Christos, the descendant of Spartan warriors? I've been around long enough now to want the first. But I'd be lying if I said that the second wouldn't have held immense appeal at some point in my life.
Nice! I'm an academic counselor. Likely descended from pig farmers. And quite noticeably not Filipino. Not a compelling sales pitch, is it. :\
i'm assuming there was a warrior somewhere in my lineage! i just don't have proof of it. although i am from the town named after pythagoras. so i'm thinking maybe i've got some mathematical genes for my kids.
Thanks, I only read the review in the Journal of Sport History, Vol. 15. No. 2 (Summer, 1988), and it is interesting.
The web-site of the World Pangration Athlima Federation is now updated: https://www.worldpangration.net/ The results and details of the 5th World Pangration Championship is now available.
I only try to establish some sort of historical links to modern Pangration. There is only one International governing body recognized by the Greek government and a number of National Olympic committees, so it is not a plug in. Anyway, I have moved on to another thread. People interested in this sport can check out the the World Pangration Athlima Federation web-site for further detail.
