Help me understand this

Hey folks. I expect most of you have seen this video already. I saw it before but didn't really follow it, so could somebody please help explain it to me? I don't get exactly what's going on.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdPP0TmqKiU"]Michael Jai White and Kimbo Slice extended version - YouTube[/ame]

 

Same thing most instructors will tell you about telegraphing and economy of motion. What he's saying is this, if when you punch, you bring up your should, flare your elbow, or do anything but move straight, you telegraph it and it won't work.

 

I get the telegraphing with the shoulder bit (coz I've seen Broken Arrow lol) but I tried it in front of a mirror and can't see or feel any difference. Maybe I should get a friend to hold his hand up and offer feedback so I can concentrate on the punch and let the results tell me if I'm doing it right, but I'm not sure how to not telegraph, yknow? I mean I've done wing chun, which uses "elbow energy" rather than the shoulders to punch, but Michael's arms are held in a much more natural relaxed position in the video so I can't translate it in my head.

 

what he said. they also go on a bit about relaxation, which is an important part of both speed and non-telegraphing.

 

one visualization you might find of use: don't start the strike from where you are; bring your fist to the target and then punch mid-movement (picture a one-inch punch with a run-up ). the force for the blow is already there because you're moving your fist to the target, and every milisecond you spend "punching" while not in contact with the target is one in which you're not really doing anything, so just bring your fist to where it needs to be and emit power only when you're almost touching.

 

Look at 1:06. It's essentially the same just his hand is off center and a little lower. It's still essentially the same as a wing chun straight punch just with one hand.

 

1) As much as I like Michael Jai White, he opens this up by saying that boxers are taught to throw a flawed punch. I think that's enough of a generalization to make it utterly useless as an overall point. Boxers, as a group, get plenty of practice throwing punches that land. So it seems fairly obvious that the non-telegraphic punch isn't solely the purview of Michael Jai White.

2) Try standing close to a wall, the side you're punching from closes to the wall. This will tell you pretty quickly whether you're flaring your elbows. The other visualization that one of my teachers used with me was to imagine that there's a weight dangling from a rope tied at your elbow joint. Your punch goes out straight, then you let that weight pull your elbow straight back down to your ribs rather than flaring out or letting your fist drop at the end of your punch.

 

I believe he said some boxers, but I may be wrong.

 

This has been on here before and basically called a distorted perspective. Think that slip made some good analysis of why this is the case. Will have to try and search to find it but basically if boxers were so stupid/poorly trained as implied then I think that Michael Jai White would have a title belt of some sort :' S

Have to wait for the end of the RSA vs Eire rugby match though... might be faster if you look yourselves :' D

LFD

 

Cheers everyone. I would have searched for it myself coz I remember seeing it somewhere, but didn't know what to look for. Michael Jai White probably would have got me somewhere now I think of it after sleeping for a bit. Oops ^.^ Thanks for the link and the explanations.

 

michael jai white also says that training with heavy weights "makes martial artists slow"
id much rather train like MMA guys than a movie star

 

Well I read through the original thread and there were some excellent posts from the boxing fraternity, and I admit that I was a bit duped at first when I heard MJW say all that stuff, I guess that I didn't factor in that boxing is evolutionary, and folks are always trying to get the drop on one and other from different perspectives, so MJW go suck an egg.
However, I don't think that we should just dismiss stuff with out tearing it apart, and trying to get something useful out of it for ourselves.
People mentioned Leonard,haglar and hearns.well I loved hagler the best, and when he got beat by Leonard my interest in boxing fizzled a bit, I was speaking to an ex boxer in the Gym the other day and we discussed some of the boxers from that era...now a lot of really excellent boxers got nowhere and we talked about this, they just would not get promoted because they didn't fight the way the public liked, and others who did got the fights.the fame and the money etc ( I'm thinking of English boxers here, like Herol Graham, Funzo Banjo ( maybe not a brit) and a few others.to me Hagar's fight with Leonard was very controversial, I think that Haglar should have gotten it, but there you go.IMHO he wasn't where the money was if you catch my drift.
But MJW well firstly a jab is to set someone up, not to knock them down and so the quicker you can get that in the better, if you notice MJW throws his arm up in a semi circle, in that way it is hard for the eye to detect, and you'll probably only see it when it is a couple of inches away, it won't knock you down but it will land......in classical MA I would call that mitsubishi i.e attacking the eyes ( disturbing the sight), also some of his strikes looked like backfists, which again employs the same philosophy, now he is not the first to use this type of thinking Sugar Ray Leonard would throw jabs from the hip, and use the right hand to jab.the idea is more to distract than destroy.now again when he talks about the brake lights on a car, that is also very valid.again from classical MA you can steal range on people, the old Samurai used to do this by the way they held their sword, they would hold it behined them, although above the head or by the hip so you couldn't guess it's length....so all good stuff for deception, and if that was all it was about then that would be cool.but there are lots of other things such as strength, knockout power etc.really not an easy subject but just a few thoughts

 

He said a lot of boxers, which is supposedly less than most. I don't know, I'm not an English teacher.

Anyway he doesn't say a lot of 'pro' boxers... btw, so I think people are just taking his comment out of context because they feel offended. And regarding the technique, one of the most exciting fighters of this generation uses this way of throwing punches constantly.

Manny Pacquiao.

Just watch him, it's hard to miss this. All his punches are straight and his telegraphing is almost non-existent. He throws his punches like that in combinations as well, so some arguments people made in the other thread about it not being useful in combinations are wrong. And you can't deny his power. I believe that if you throw a punch in such a way, your lower body determines mostly how much power is going to be in that punch.

And his lower body is ridiculous btw, have you seen his calves? :wow:

 

Offended? Not me. Not like I'm a proper boxer. But I do think there's some irony in him lecturing a grizzled veteran of bareknuckle boxing on the nuances of punching. Kimbo may not have turned out to be the MMA monster people had hoped. But the guy knows a thing or two about boxing.

 

Also a fair point.

To be clear, I like Michael Jai White. I think he's one of the most credible martial arts stars out there. Just not a big fan of this particular demo.

 

There is no way Anderson Silva is Seagal's "student" and did nothing to win that he didn't already know before meeting Seagal.
I just think MMA fighters like hanging around with film stars and say dumb stuff to keep them happy.
The idea that Seagal taught MMA fighters anything is so laughable it's an internet meme.

 

MJW has seven black belts in different martial arts and U.S. Open, North American J.K.A., World Knockdown Free sparring Champion are among the many titles he owns. And he has been training since he was 8.

As per his own website. I doubt he would just blatantly lie about everything.

Because of this, I'm having a hard time understanding why everyone is so negative about him giving advice about techniques. With his resume, I'd think the dude would at least have a good grasp on technique and that's exactly what he is preaching in this video. But maybe you guys know something about him that I don't.

Anyway Kimbo Slice is just a ruffian, who does everything mostly with his strength. I think his rise to fame is way more doubtful than MJW's "expertise".

And again, MJW was explaining a technique that the Pacman is a huge fan of. If anyone has any credibility, it's the Pacman.