OK - moving back to the topic.... According to Dr. Kimm's book (see summary article here "http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116904" "In 1981, Myung Jae-nam left the Dae Han Min Kuk Hapkido Hyub Hoe and created his own organization called the International Hapkido Federation. He began using a 9 dan black belt ranking system. The Sae Ma Eul Hapkido Association adopted this as their ranking system as well and promoted their first two 9th dan black belts – Ji Han-jae and Kim Moo-hong. The Sae Ma Eul Hapkido Association wanted a unified curriculum so they selected Ra In-dong (from Kim Moo-hong's Shin Moo Kwan) and Song Young-ki (from Ji Han-jae's Sung Moo Kwan) to consolidate the curriculum. The created a unified 1st – 4th dan curriculum and were authorized to do seminars and training to spread this for 10 years. (pp.339-341)". This is the first mention of anyone being awarded a 9th dan rank in Hapkido (previously the highest rank as 7th dan, of which Kim Moo-hong and Shin Sang-chul were awarded this earlier). Does anyone know of any Hapkido 9th dans promoted before 1981 - would this make Ji Han-jae and Kim Moo-hong the first two Hapkido 9th dans? When Myung Jae-nam split off and created the IHF, did he assume a 9th dan rank? If not, where (and when) did he become a 9th dan? EDIT - So far, on this thread, we've mentioned 6 people with 9th dans - Ji Han-jae (1981 - 9th dan from the Sae Ma Eul Hapkido Association) - Kim Moo-hong (1981 - 9th dan from the Sae Ma Eul Hapkido Association) -Lim Hyun-soo (1983 - promoted to 9th dan by Choi Yong-sool Dojunim) - photo of dan certificate on http://www.jungkikwan.com/ - Kim Yung-sang (1984 - 9th dan from Choi Yong-sool Dojunim, offered 10th dan from Choi Yong-sool Dojunim in 1985, which was refused, offered the 3rd "Doju"ship from Choi Dojunim's daughter-in-law in 2002 and accepted.) - Lee Yong-soo (1984 - 9th dan from Choi Yong-sool Dojunim, offered 10th dan from Choi Yong-sool Dojunim in 1985, which was refused) - Chang Chin-il (accepted the second Doju-ship from Choi Yong-sool Dojunim in 1985) - anyone know when he was awarded 9th dan?
I knew an 11th Dan once. He wasn't much different from the 10 other Daniels I've met. *Ba dum cha!* I'm here til Thursday. Enjoy the veal!
this gentleman also claims 9th dan hapkido. http://www.hyunshapkido.com/trainer/grand-master-k-s-hyun i don't know details of timing.
Jung Hwan Park is a Ninth Dan in Hapkido. I saw his certificate once but I am not sure of the year or federation that awarded it. He received his 6th or 7th Dan under Choi Yong Sool. http://www.martialartsinc.net/grandmasterpark.cfm
Sort of on topic, but sort of not… I think a lot of the problem is the perception of a DAN being equal or somehow equivalent to an actual degree. BS, MS, PHD etc. are all degrees that everyone knows about and DAN degrees are not. I think people incorrectly connect the two in their minds and give a DAN degree more weight than it deserves. Like colored belts, a DAN is only relevant within its own system that it was awarded. If a fourth DAN TKD practitioner were to join the WKSA, he would be white belt…there is no transfer of credits hours, experience etc. I think people get too caught up in the he’s a 10th DAN, 8th DAN, etc stuff way too much. If the founder of an organization awards a DAN, then that’s that… If his highest rank is 7th, then I would count that 7th DAN equivalent to a 10th in another, different style.
I am a teacher, I am a student, all the rest is just hoopla. Any person who commits themselves to their art and tries to share it is deserving of respect regardless of the embroidery.
totally disagree. not all "martial arts" are equal. clearly, there's plenty of larp-ers, shady teachers, just totally bad techniques that are out there. statements like that just give those bad arts/techniques/teachers a veneer of respectability, which is total nonsense.
I understand where Jon is coming from. I see where Giovanni is coming from. The crux of both statements to me is integrity. I have Dan rankings in Hapkido, Koryo Gumdo, and Tae Kwon Do. I don't ever say Jujutsu, Kenjutsu, or Karate. They are their own arts for a reason. But alas I have seen karate schools and pick your style that don't last long because its just not good.
I've been blessed to meet and learn under a lot of very good people over the years. I've run accross a few places and shrugged and went my way.
As the head of the IHF, he didn't need rank. The IHF dojunim so to say is always above rank. Also his son who took over after his father passed away, never graded after that (I think he was a 7th dan when Myung Jae-nam died), but he did promote other people. These days all ranks above 5th dan have to be tested for in front of the IHF testing board. I would also like to point out that Myung Jae-nam didn't promote his own personal students to the rank of 9th dan until 1992/3 (not to sure about the date). He did promote people, most notably Ji Han-jae, to 10th dan before that.
Grandmaster Chinil Chang has certificate # 1 for the 9th dan I didnt take note of the date He also possesses the 10th dan certificate and the date of that is April 5, 1985 that is direct from Grandmaster Choi as is up on the wiki bio that my friend wrote. Iron OX continually doubted this but it is authentic and it is real and was issued directly from grandmaster choi.
Wow - that is cool information. The mention of a 10th dan would make sense - it would fit in line with the notion that he offered Kim Yung-sang and Lee Yong-soo 'Doju-ships' and 10th dans in 1985. Supposedly they both refused. It might also fit in line with the notion that the head of a system (Doju) would be (equivalent to) 10th dan, perhaps?
Thanks Klaas, that's great information! That would make sense. Looking at my IHF passport/certificate, it is signed by Myung Jae-nam and his tile is listed as "Kook Sa (Doju)" and on my dan cards as "President (Doju)". So, he would have been the "Doju" of the IHF. That makes sense. Do you know if he is referred to as "Doju (nim)"? Up to and including 10th dan? Good info. Do you know who was promoted to 9th at that time, maybe GM Ko Baek-yong? This is interesting. As IHF Dojunim, he could promote anyone to anything he wanted. GM Ji Han-jae had been promoted by the Sae Ma Eul Hapkido Association to 9th dan, so even though they were a competitor, kit would make sense to offer the next rank after that. But, what was the promotion in? It would have to be in IHF Hapkido (most likely not in Hankido or Hankumdo, right?). That would imply that Myung Jae-nam Dojunim (Kuksanim) was senior to Ji Han-jae in IHF Hapkido even though he had been GM Ji Han-jae's student earlier. In my IHF passbook, there are also title listed by each rank. By 10th dan, the title is "Do Sa". I wonder if this was the title conferred upon GM Ji Han-jae as well. That would also indicate that Myung Jae-nam, as Dojunim, is higher than the Dosanim. Thoughts?
Hi Thomas, Thats all I know at the moment. I dont know about anyone refusing the doju ship but grandmaster chang has many more additional certificates which gave him specific authorities, it was like over time grandmaster choi was prepping him for the grandmastership. If you look at all the info in line with all the photos and letters between them-- its very clear, the other 4 or 5 certificates which nobody else has and then turning over the US to him as the highest rank student then turning over the complete system to him a couple of years later show an ample path. Its not a sudden thing like many would like to believe. Thats my thoughts as an outsider looking in and being fair and even to what i seen and read. I am not hapkidoist so i am looking at it from just the hard proof in front of me standpoint. Just very intrigued. My friend who i trained with in Se Asian was a student of grandmaster chang for close to a decade and he brought me over to see him. He wrote the wiki bio and has all the copies of the material and I think at some point some of this and all the stuff will come to the public.
Yes, if I recall, Ji Han-jae, as "Dojunim of Sin Moo Hapkido" promoted Grand Master Kenneth MacKenzie, Grandmaster Jurg Ziegler and Grandmaster Merrill Jung to 10th dan in 2010 (I think). Later GM Massan Ghorbani was promoted to 10th dan as well. There are quite a few 9th dans under Ji Han-jae Dojunim as well. (I don't normally like wikipedia, but this has a pretty good list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin_Moo_Hapkido )
He is the IHF dojunim, but since he is also the founder of the Jaenam Musulwon (재남무술원), he is more often referred to as wonjangnim (원장님). Not sure. I do know that people who test for 9th dan have to write an essay. I think that 10th degree is a honorary degree. Many people were promoted that day. I don't know all of them, and to name only the few that I do know, wouldn't do justice to the rest of them. Also I don't know who got promoted to which degree. I know of one person who got his 8th dan that day. I was mistaken btw about the year, seems it was May, 1996. Yes, it was hapkido. Myung Sung-kwang WJN wrote his thesis on hankido a few years back. In this he wrote that the 10th dan should be seen as a sign of friendship between both masters who were now considered equals.
While doing some searching I suddenly came across this picture. I had never seen it before. Just wanted to share it. I have no idea who the gentleman to the left is. The on the right is obviously Choi Yong-sul DJN. Here is the page where I found it http://gopara.tistory.com/category/종합무술(합기도, 검도)?page=3
