saito shihan the aikidoka who received the most personal training from O Sensei taught the ken and jo techniques. Knife defence. Any other weapons were NOT taught by O Sensei or any of his original shihan.Although he studied spear himself O Sensei taught the jo to his students. The naginata movement was taught to a group of female dancers by O Sensei. An expert in naginata said that O Sensei's understanding was excelent even though O Sensei did NOT study naginata. The ken and the jo were studied so that the aikidoka could use the principles of those arts in unarmed combat. All of the other "variations" have been introduced by modern teachers and were NOT taught by original shihan. Looking at those videos they do not look like aiki weapons use at all. Below Saito Shihan and my certificate in ken and jo
Koyo, I've just used my google-fu and found mention that Ueshiba Sensei studied Yagyū Shingan-ryū? Yagyū Shingan-ryū among other things covers naginata. Although it did say he didn't train frequently due to his military career. ??
Yes O Sensei did study yagyu shingan ryu during his time in the military. The information about his naginata was given to us by Saito Shihan, i have seen "modern" use of the sword and the stick introduced by some modern "teachers" and most is terrible.
Yes, well I was referring to a tanto made out of wood. I believe I mentioned the wood somewhere in the same sentance in which I used tanto. Many dojo call them tanto whether wood or blade. I will remember to have you leave your weapons bag outside in your car should I decide to teach tanto Tori to a class. I am sure one of the junior students would not mind letting you use their unbladed, wooden practice model. Just don't want to cause any more confusion especially on a training day.
Bit of difference between using a bit of wood and a bladed weapon. I'm of the opinion that if it's an edged weapon you should regard it as such when it comes to waza, even if you're using a wooden training "representation". Do you ever use steel/alloy tanto when training?
Excellent information people. I've used a steel tanto in training Dean. While it's not something I'd recommend for every class. It is a valuable training experience.
I have only been doing Aikido for 3 years, and I have only used a Hanbo once. So I doubt many dojos use it
-- There is no difference. People have died getting hit with a piece of wood, people have died getting hit with a piece of metal...even the wooden tanto can pierce a body (it's a physics thing). Do we ever use steel/alloy when training tanto? No, but sometimes we use a metal pipe to represent the hanbo (just joking, but really, maybe we should consider it...make our training more "real?") (Here we go agian...) In anycase, thanks for your opinion.
-- And also, I can do the same I mentioned above (using a small piece of wood that I refered to that is shaped as a tanto), using what is in the picture you posted, with or without the cover on it. Without cutting, without stabbing, but in the manner in which I described using it above.
-- Do you ever train with a fairbain sykes? (Just wondering...) I probably would have a lot more difficulty using the fairbain sykes in the manner I described above, especially the part about not cutting/stabbing would be a little more difficult.
The difference in my experience is psychological. People get very comfortable with a wooden tanto very quickly. They realise the chances of a fatal blow are minimal and are happy to accept those odds. The glint of a shiny mental blade however leaves people with an inescapable awareness of the danger they are facing. It pushes people that bit farther beyond their comfort zone in a way that's hard to replicate.
-- A slap upside the face from a blue belt (when I started aikido there was only white, brown, an black, now they have a rainbow of colors), tends to do the same thing. Now, yes, I could kill that blue belt after the fact, but that's after the fact. Sometimes the slap isn't even needed...i can already see where their hands, head and feet are...I know I have made an error, and that I need to adjust...and adjust now...even if it involves a departure from the technique we are supposed to be practicing. And that's without any weapons in their hands at all, now give them a paper clip and I would have to visit the er...we have some very resilient blue belts that seem not to care about my almost 20 years in aikido...and thats a good thing, I'm glad I have trained them, and I'm glad I can learn my weaknesses from them.
Yes even a wooden knife can injure you. BUT what is missing in most training is the fact that if I had not struck him while executing the technique I could have been head butted, struck with his left hand or foot swept. techniques against knife attacks are VERY difficult.
I couldn't care less how long you've trained either. Being hit with an empty open hand or punched with a fist doesn't have the same psychological impact on most people as asking them to face a knife. If I mess up with an unarmed technique or wooden tanto, I'll very likely escape with little more than a few bruises. With a live blade however the consequences have a far greater likelihood of being fatal. Which is what registers in most peoples minds. As koyo points out, techniques against a knife are very difficult. If the wooden tanto wasn't a safer option it wouldn't be used as a training weapon.
Exactly Aikiwolfie, A wooden training weapon is just that a training weapon, it's been made safe for training and this is the flaw present when working with it. If you are exploiting the saftey features in a drill as a means of performing the drill then you are indulging in bad training practices, IMO. Training with steel weapons be they live or "semi-sharp" keeps you honest in your training and provides another level of pressure and stress to work from. Yes perhaps you can do the same waza with a tanto that you can with a bit of wood but as soon as you start looking at that tanto, be it steel or wood, as anything other than an edged weapon then you open yourself up to carelessness.
Too many people get comfortable with their aikido classes!!! ALL training should be out of your comfort zone. If it is not then it is pointless and shall be most disapointing if you ever cross train or come under a true attack.
I have done in the past but not in what I'm training in now, keep in mind though I'm not an Aikidoka and so may well have "played" with such things in a different manner.
Koyo I agree. I also agree with Deans sentiment that a weapon should always be treated as a weapon. And in a perfect world that would be the case. But we don't live in a perfect world and as you say Koyo. Too many people get comfortable in their Aikido training.
