Hi, I'm pretty much a newbie to the MA world. Wonder if I can ask a silly question...when you talk about grappling with regards to judo/jujitsu etc what exactly are you talking about? Is it "wrestling" on the ground, similar or totally different? Or is grappling associated with the grabbing/pulling/pushing of an opponent in order to get him/her into a position where one can execute a throw or lock??
To me grappling covers everything where you get hold of someone. Whether its wrestling/ judo etc, locks/holds/throws. You can be standing or on the ground. But when there is striking on the ground as well as grappling, people usually refer to it as groundfighting.
"Or is grappling associated with the grabbing/pulling/pushing of an opponent in order to get him/her into a position where one can execute a throw or lock??" wat u r talkin about is manevuring(spells??)...which is always done irrespective of grapplers or strikers... grappling to me is both on ground n off ground... which avoid striking methods(sometimes) it can be anything from push pull, getting hold of ur oppnt... -TkdWarrior-
You have standing grappling (throws, standing locks) and on the ground grappling (groundwork). Different schools use different terms.
My original perception of grappling was groundwork/wrestling...but having watched a number of jujutsu classes, I've seen that grappling can also be standup. STandup grappling comes into its own when faced with an opponent of superior striking ability (ie. a boxer), one would then move right up in close, eliminating his ability to punch, and from there either execute a throw-lock combo or standup lock or strangle. i dont know, am I speaking rubbish?
Nope, what you're saying makes sense, but not with all strikers. Some of us are trained to be able to 'fight in a phonebox'. I can throw an effective punch to a target less than an inch away from me, and still get the same power. Its just down to the way you're trained.
When we grapple or get in close it does reduce the amount of strength in a punch and even if you can punch strong in close it won't be nearly as hard as when from a full arms length. No matter how hard you try you will not be able to get the same strength in the punch, let me show you. (/me puts on his lab coat ) I added the weight of the arm in there in case any of you wanted to check my results using another equations say F=m(a) or P=F(V) . Anyway you slice it getting in close will save your from anyones full striking potential. PM me if any of you have some questions, comments or suggestions. PS- WARNING: Geek speak ahead -----> It is true that power and time are inversly proportional but to really prove me wrong you would need to deal with instant acceleration of the arm, and I don't think that it's humanly possible.
You are however ignoring the fact that as your arm is projected, there is less muscular force putting follow-through into the blow as it extends. Using your theory would mean that if you connect with someone at full extension, you've made the most powerful possible blow, not so. Most of your power comes from follow-through, where the energy that you're pumping into your arm is more important than the velocity, so while the initial impact will be lessened (as it is dependent on velocity) the follow-through will be greatly increased, since you can continue the blow further through the target. Nope, no offense here, but I can prove you wrong with a handful of Choi students/instructors and some shields. (Note: I use Choi merely because it is my art, and not to suggest any superiority to other arts)
Looks like a sound theory for final velocity in linear punches. It doesn't, however, cater for transferal of force based on structural alignment. Now try working out what happens in a hooking blow - especially one that tightens it's arc as it nears the target.
Dammit! Stop making me talk physics, I get enough at uni. The effects will be that the punch will speed up, and carry more power, give me a day or so and I can probably work out the maths for you.
Grappling/Wrestling Judo/Ju Jitsu Dumog/Buno They are all part of the same familia Submisson Can be done stand up or on the Round.
Yeah it's just all based on a linear punch. What I am trying to say is, it doesn't matter if you are super man you can not say that your puches won't be their strongest (most forceful) until your have reached the apex of your puch (which is not within the first inch).The more acceleration you have going behind that 10kg arm the more force it is going to impact with (F=ma), and it takes distance to build acceleration. CKD you are thinking that your arms Vi = 4m/s, that is just impossible, Vi will allways = 0 because your arm is starting from a stand still. I know your arm has an apex and after that point it looses force but up until that apex it's gaining usefull acceleration and the more the better (or worse for your opponent ). All in all I just wanted to prove that grappling in close does take away a lot of striking power, and I think that was proven. It doesn't matter if you can show pupils/sensai you know that can punch strong in close because the point is that they would punch better at further distance (up until that apex). Thanks for your input Yoda, I will look into the same principal on a hooked punch later on. Using centrifical force and some other methods. Cheers everybody and thanks for your input
Nope, if I got you on the ground pinned, I am immobolizing your body weight, you can't use it to punch with any power. But don't just take my word for it, try it. Get someone to sit in a mounted position on you, put their weight on your chest, get down low and see how much power you can generate with your one inch punch. Now compare that to how much they have striking down at where your head is. Against a trained grappler you don't get to punch, unless they let you or unless you are also trained at that range.
