Sorry but someone's just lit a fire up my **** (Not a good thought) regarding Aikidoists and bloody Yudansha grades in Budo. Will someone please explain to me what that is all about. I've just spent nearly four years involved (investigating) a dispute over unsubstantiated grades and experience, thankfully that's resolved and I've no intention of getting into that again however, why oh why are so many British 'supposedly' senior yudansha claiming dan grades in Budo ? Budo is a philosophical ideology of ALL the Japanese martial traditions, does one get a certificate (seemingly many of, according to some) in this subject ? Is it me, or does this appear to be Mickey Mouse BS. I will of course stand corrected if anyone can direct me to an organisation that issues these grades. Regards (off to have a pint !)
I hold a 2nd Dan in BUDO - to be honest I don't mention it much because I don't class it as a "pure grade". I was awarded it by George Ross of the Wang Tang Martial Arts Association in Hull. Nice guys, but none of the club can fight for toffee. Budo seems to be a martial arts equivalent of "combined science" at school. I was tested on weaponry, strikes, throws and groundwork so it is basically just another name for a martial art - the standards are the same as those for say ju-jitsu. Like I said, I usually don't lay claim to it. My certificate is quite pretty though!
Hi Han. Many thanks for your reply and please don't think I'm having any sort of 'pop' or dig. I genuinely want to know more about this issue. So thanks again for your input, would you care to share your continued thoughts on the following ? I accept that you (as just one individual with a grade in budo) have taken a grading in 'Budo' but I just fail to see the providence of such a grading and therefore the certification. Let me reitterate. I'm not having a go at you mate okis ? Budo as a subject isn't physical in definitive terms, because it is a 'word' used to describe ideology of the martial traditions of Japan. Yes I do of course agree that Budo is very closely associated with physical martial activity however, it is a description of an ideology akin the martial traditions of Japan. A philosophy if you will, of the martial ways, many of them Koryu. Again I just can't see how (Aikidoists in my case) can claim to be dan grades in this subject even if (those) individuals physically took a grading to acheive the certification. What techniques can one apply of philosophical nature ? To me, someone prepared to issue a grade in "Budo" should surely be saying I've studied and to some degree mastered the systems included in the Budo philyosohy, that in it's self isn't acheivable in a single lifetime IMHO. Personally if someone was studying Budo as a subject, I would expect them to be taking a degree or Phd simply because the subject is vast to say the least.
Mr. Humm, You have hit onto one of my pet peeves as well. I believe it to be a western practice to award people grades in philosphies and "systems" that otherwise do not exist in what should be their country of origin. Budo, as you stated, is an all encompassing way of life, and to grade someone in a way of life seems silly to me. It seems to coincide with the practice of using titles such as "soke" to enhance ego. BTW, I read your work on another website concerning the aikidoka's claims in the U.k.- Well done! =-bambeer
No offence taken! Like I said, it is not really a grade I lay claim to with any regularity - to be honest it is a bit of a "bonus" grade I have picked up along the way. Originally I was given it because I was told "you are not quite technical enough for a 2nd Dan in Ju-Jitsu" - that was a joke because the other senior grades were excreable. "Budo" was always one of those "Freestyle" grades that were given out - to be honest, I don't recall if it even had a set syllabus. I do not recognise it as a style I have attained, and I do not expect anyone else to either.
I could be way off base here, but my understand of Budo/Bushido is this. It is a system of ideaologies developed by samurai during a very extended time of peace to romantisize their roles in order to justify the high stature of the samurai in the japanese cast system. Many of these samurai never saw a battle or any combat first hand, they in a way had become philosophers. How this can be contrived into a martial form confuses me. These philosiphes were reborn and used to great effect to turn the japanese armed forces into a zealous bunch in WWII, but as far as I know that was its only real war time application. I agree with you bambeer, they do seem to conicide with the organizations that use terms such as 'soke'. I happen to be in one and know all to well about the underhandedness and lack for a better term, bullcrap, that is assosciated with them. No digs here for any one who has earned a rank in either one of these, I am sure they worked very hard for it. My oppinion is what they have learned is something other than budo.
I agree Budo is a generic term which really has little meaning in a practical sense. On the same lines what about people issuing/accepting grades within their own art (in this case Aikido) within their own association without authorisation from a Hombu dojo (not just Aikikai). I know that there are several people within the UK claiming high dan grades (up to 8th Dan) in Aikido with no authority other than their own and even awarding themselves Shihan status. To me as an Aikidoka thats even worse than a grade in some spurios martial art as it demeans Aikido in the eyes of the general public. Any thoughts?
Thanks for the replys fellas, and sorry for not getting back to you on this sooner (Been away on a family holiday) Thanks again for your comments and thoughts, they echo my own.
You know Grades in the Japanese arts, did not come around for alot of years after the art was created. Its a good thing that we have grading Syllabus, or else we would not know who was a senior, and who was the Uki. lol....just joking.
I think you might be over simplifying but, I understand where your coming from. Concentrating on Aikido, if I were to 'claim' any dan grade in Budo, one would expect it should carry the same credibility as any other 'legitimate' yudansha grade. What exactly qualifies a dan grade in Budo? Is a dan grade in Budo accredited to an Aikidoist the same as one for a Karateka, Judoka etc etc ? The bottom line for me personally, I think grades in Budo are nothing more than an attempt at ego inflation and self importance by adding another series of BB Grades to the end of a persons name. One individual is currently claiming on his website to be an 8th Dan Aikido, 8th Dan Budo, might as well add 8th dan Bullsh*t. I wonder when we'll see our first British 9th dan ? Names in a hat..
Hi Philip This point was rasied a couple of years ago on the 'old' NACD forums and was very hotly debated. One suggestion that I put forward was for our Govering Body to be responsible for the issue of Yudansha grades to it's Principal members thus, having some control over the issue you raise. If you read that thread, you may recall the very heated responces from a certain quarter who refused to accept that any governing body could administrate the ratification of Yudansha grades in the UK. Personally I think it would (in principle) be a good idea.
We allready have a british nineth dan His name is George Kerr Judoka from Edinburgh, but i dont think any one can argue with his breed as he was in Japan doing judo in the fifties, truly old school.
... 9th dan in AIKIDO mate, not judo. I know fek all about that discipline so can't comment. Where will the line be drawn, 10th dan ? but then will we see "Soke" being the name banded about ? LOL excuse my pessimism. Don't get me wrong I accept the providence of all dan grades regardless of the loftier levels but, I am hugely sceptical of ANY grade above Rokkudan especially if its in the context of an instructor outside of any affiliation to a hombu dojo. The same is true for any Aikido instructor claiming grades in Budo, which was the thrust of this thread.
OK fair point made on that. On the point of SOKE, I dont know if this is along the same idea, but look at what Hitohiro Saito sensie has done and left the Aikikai and become now "Iwama shinshin Aiki shurenkai" Now he is Soke of this school, but there is nobody who can truly argue with this decesion as he had no option but to do this in order to save Iwama Aikido and preserve the Aikiken and aikijo. There is nobody is above or can teach him this Aikido, so he is correct to do this and as he is probably one of the best Aiki masters in the world with easily the best aikiken and jo around, this makes him a true SOKE. Who is above grading now..
Why do you care what grade someone calls themselves? Aikido is about developing yourself not someone else. If you need validation from someone else how can you ever achieve harmony of spirit? The Bear.
I care because i want the best training i can get. In this country most high grades ive seen i think are no were near worth any more than yondan. If you dont have the highest standards within yourself then will learn any old crap from anyone.
You will get crap high graded instructors anywhere, even in Japan. So forget the grade and find a good teacher. The sad reality is that grades are meaningless. In an ideal world everyone would be worth their grade but we do not live in an ideal world. So you will have to trust yourself to find someone you can learn what you consider Aikido. The Bear.
