Er... No he didn't, he quoted several names, dates, grades, organisations and locations, these claims have been refuted as UNTRUE, including the supposed HIGH GRADE you refer and place emphasis upon ! Sorry but I disagree, you are refering to a "custom and practice" of using your grade as a means of status. If people wish to question my credibility, better the answers come from my Instructor rather than me. Indeed you state "publicly" how on earth did people do this prior to the medium of the net ? A person's grade only becomes public knowledge when it is released in to the public domain, I have no desires of doing that, it doesn't mean I have anything to hide, after all Mac you know my grade and it isn't exactly the level where I might be BS for status. And I've already given anyone who wants validation of my grade and or teaching qualification, the means to do so. Additionally I don't teach aikido "publicly" I teach in a privately owned dedicated dojo, not in a sports centre or any other public venue, I use a website to assist in making the dojo known, not for personal gratification or financial gain. I also have in direct support a 6th and 4th dan Shidoin and Fukushidoin (respectively) ensuring the dojo is run appropriately to the standars required by a Honbu affiliated organisation. Yudansha grades do not automatically make instructors, and this is a point of contention. People need to be trained to teach, Yudansha examinations only provide substance to a level of skill in the art, not in the teaching of it. Hence "Fukushidoin" "Shidoin" and "Shihan" exist. Why people get so hung up on grades is beyond me frankly. I've seen senior graded people not worth ikkyu - certificates are like MOT (Ministry of Transport) vehicle tests - they only certify that on the day of the test the vehicle was up to standard. Also the grade is only an opinion of another person, if that person's opinion is flawed, so is the certification. INDEED ! so does the qualification of your definition of Vendetta apply to those who are persisting regarding my grades? Regards
As a Tomiki stylist who is visited on a regular basis by Aikidoka of other styles and associations I have no problem with recognising grades from other associations although some are better than others. IMHO I think that grades up to and including Godan should be technical examinations with the exeption of a time served Aikidoka who is of Sandan rank or above with health problems that does not allow him/her to take part in an examination. Within the Tomiki/Shodokan world many associations issue their own Menjo as well as the JAA Menjo. The European Aikido Association gave students a choice of EAA Menjo or JAA Menjo both if they wanted. As the EAA was affiliated to the JAA all grades issued were recognised even if not registered with them. I know the BAA and I think the the JAAUSA have the same arrangement. Unlike western associations who have an yearly membership fee we only paid the JAA menjo fee's. I was told that some of this money was used to keep the Late Mrs Tomiki.
The original thrust of this thread has been lost and I am partly responsible for this (for which I apologise to the poster) No comment I'd ask how we define "legitimate" ?People already know my feelings on the issue of grades and who issues them. Diplomatic gradings, do you mean "democratic" grades which are awarded to Principal Instructors by their own students or committees ? I hold no credibility in such grades, they are in my opinion purely academic bits of wall hanging paper and mean little compared to an award made by a recognised organisation such as a style respective Hombu. See my comment above No.. It is what it is, a grade from your sensei. Provided you do not BS people in respect of your grade(s) it retains its credibility when compared to your skill and knowledge. Regards
The AMA has got lots of MA groups within their membership who are recognised by their respective world governinig bodies. They are a part of the EKGB and are only a service provider for martial arts. In the past as a small group we were members of the AMA all our grades were issued through the EAA/JAA. The AMA is no different to the BAB with some members having Hombu grades and some having western grades. I am affraid that politics have played a major part in how many group have formed within the UK. In theory why have groups formed out of the Aikikai of Great Britian, The British Aikido Association and the original Yoshinakan group formed by Mr Yu in the 70's the answer is ego and politics and these exist regardless of where a grade was issued. A lots of UK associations use the term Aikikai in their name. I can see that this can cause confusion. Many of these are self governing associations within the BAB, AMA or whoever they buy their insurance off of. I think that there is nothing wrong with this as long as false claims of affiliation to the Aikikai are not made. If we look at Karate, one of the most successfull National coaches and styles is Ticky Donovan and Ishinryu. Ishinryu Karate was developed by Ticky Donovan, although traditional in its approach it is a western system. I know that their standards are very high for grading. I would think that within martial arts in the UK only a very small percentage would hold Hombu or world governing body Menjo. Going on to the point about the various Aikido bodies and systems recognising each other, I am sure that Japanese Shihan from the various systems have respect for each other. Nariyama Shihan Hachidan world technical director of the JAA also holds the Grade of Rokudan in Traditional Aikido,as well as a dan grade in Judo.
Personally for someone to advance in grade be it though an examination of some kind or by awarded rank or any other method, I think a student should have shown improvement in their knowledge of Aikido. I don't think grades should be handed out purely for time served. That would be unfair to the people who went through examinations. If you can't stand on your own two feet you shouldn't stand at all. You're likely to fall over.
By time served I did mean a senior grade who has reached the required standard and is of the same standard as a person who has taken a technical examination. and this is not an option for someone of good health. The association that I was graded through was the European Aikido Association affiliated to the JAA headed by Dr Lee Ah Loi 7th Dan. Within the EAA you could only take a technical examinations and this was upto and including Godan 5th Dan. IMHO there should also be a grade for merit above 3rd dan as one of the people who was teaching me in the early days, through ill health could not physically perform a technical grading, although he had the technical knowlege to Godan. I found that when I became a senior grade to him it felt strange. As someone who has graded technically to 5th Dan I would not wish any grade to be an easy option both technical or non technical should be of the same standard. The issue of the give away grades is something that made us form the EAA in the first place, as there was no advancement above 3rd Dan other than for political activity in the association we came from in the uk. IMHO by offering a full syllabus up to Godan that included all 6 of the koryu no kata we kept them alive and this offers Aikidoka who do not wish to go down the route of being involved in the running of an association a way to advance.
and... Sorry mate but unless you have some form of contructive addition to this and other threads, perhaps you might consider not wasting our time with your pointless one liners ? Regards
I think this is where we have to clearly distinguish between the ability to perform and the ability to teach.
IMHO its the depth of knowlegde that makes a good teacher, being restricted by age illness or injury does not take this away. I also believe that many Aikidoka are teaching to early and left with little support from their association/governing body, or not willing to further their own technical developement. Looking at Dave Humm's website I assume that the UKA use a system of clubs being a part of a shidoin house. UKA members let me know if Iam right on this one. If so what a good system to maintain support and standards. The EAA had a similar system my Dojo was closely linked to the Jugokan Dr Lee's club. The depth of budo being taught in that dojo made me want to go back week after week,I studied their untill Godan level as this was the correct way in my mind. Within my clubs my Yudansha are engouraged to maintain their own personal training, this seems to work as many are still with me, some for nearly 30 years.
Yep. I'd agree with that. Which is why I think their should be a distinction between ability to perform and ability to teach.
Yup.. abslutely correct Shaun.. The UKA has four "House" Shidoin Ren Shin Kan - William Smith Shihan MBE 6th Dan Aikikai Gordon Jones 6th Dan Aikikai Myo Shin Juku - Peter Brady 6th Dan Aikikai Te Shin Kai - Keith Hayward 6th Dan Aikikai Kyu Shin Kan - Peter Brown 5th Dan Aikikai These houses form the umbrella structure to many other dojo which exist in the UKA, each respective instructor in responsible through a virtical relationship to their Shidoin, through to Mr. Smith who is Principal to the organisation. Most houses run kenshusei programes teaching potential instructors what they need to know *before* they're graded to yudansha. We have an appointed Japanese instructor sent from Hombu every year to ensure we are maintaining our required standard. From my perspective as both a member and instructor, the house system works very well. Regards
All this about grading got me thinking. When Chiba shihan first came to Britain I was one of the few who was already a shodan graded by Noro shihan and having a certificate from Honbu dojo. To be blunt we had been copying Noro shihans movement despite the fact that he was 6th dan and we were kyu grades and a few dan grades. On our first meeting I was graded by Chiba shihan. FROM BLACK TO WHITE BECAUSE SOMETHING WAS MISSING.No other explanation despite the fact that he said I was sincere and had an excellent attitude. I did some soul searching that night and decided I wanted to learn from this master of aikido and I also decided I was who I was and whether I wore black or white did not change that.I appeared the next day sans hakama and black belt sat among the white belts.As always I sought out the highest grade I could to train with. Nakazono shihan was there and noticed my change of apparel and came over and whispered "I think he likes you!"The bottom line is I WANTED TO TRAIN IN AIKIDO what I wore matters not a bit. And respectfully what other people thought of me matters not a jot because I am my own worst critic. A few months later Chiba shihan graded me to 2nd dan and when I said SECOND DAN!!! He said second dan is Nothing. Almost forty years later Sekiya shihan said about grades. A martial artist must not put limitations upon him self hoping to be a shihan or calling yourself a shihan that is a limitation. The best you can strive for is to be better tomorrow than you are today the rest is ego and bull. Incidently I have had some I hope mutually beneficial exchanges with D Humm and I do not care at all what "grade " he is. Koyo
Ah Koyo, You are in real danger of scaring people on the forum. I think many love their dan grades alot. Taking away their certainty will lead to existential angst. They may even have to think about their Aikido instead of endlessly criticising other aikidoka. As for large umbrella organisations they can be a double edged sword. I think the best you can hope for is you find a dedicated instructor with a good knowledge and the ability to impart that knowledge. I have never asked any of my instructors there grade. I have always judged them on their ability as I perceive it. That way you take responsibility for your own training. The Bear.
Better that I frighten them here on the net than someone frightens them in the street.I learned from Chiba shihan that it is not the senei or shihan's responsibility to "teach" the student._pause (then to hell with it let;s go for it) Shihan are NOT teachers they are "those who went before" they are examples.(some good some not so good) 90% of what you learn you must discover for yourself under the guidance of "one who went before"initially. Then it becomes a very personal struggle. Then all criticism will be focussed in on yourself as you strive to progress criticising others who do not ask for it is pointless. By the way Bear did you know that when I wrote the samurai column for artsmagic.co.uk the samurai movie site that they christened me The Destroyer Of Dreams? I do not understand this and now you say I am frightening people.Keep on posting REALLY NICE GUY KOYO
Wow Koyo, Your earning my respect here. I keep finding myself agreeing with you which is really unnerving. Do you get aikido groupies The Bear.
