Goshin Jutsu Karate

NO offense-but complaining to us on a style YOU say is a Fraud isn't going to change the fact that its being taught.

There are too many other styles that are going through simularities like this. Is it ITF or IKF? Aikido is better...No its not....Yes it is....My style is best....yours sucks....

See my point? There is no point to posting a negative response to shoot down any martial art style that someone is learning. If it is a "fake", let him find out on his own. Some people know that their "style" is watered down, yet they still train in it. Because they still get valuable skills, training and knowledge.

Besides this, this is a forum for exchanging ideas in training, martial arts of ALL kinds, watered down or not. This is how we learn of them.

You have a right to express your opinion. Just keep it at that.


No need to bring the politics in this discussion. Lets keep it friendly!

 

Here's the problem..

The person that started this thread does this to sell his "art" to others. He tells of how great this phony style is and usually posts links to web sites that mention my teachers name.
These people have falsified these certificates and forged my teachers name on them.
I think it was not only wrong to do that, I also think those who are being sold this line of crap have a right to know that the ranks are fake and the certificates are forged.
Tell this guy to stop using my teachers name in his sales pitches and I will stop telling people he is a liar. Does that sound fair?

I have offered, and will pay $2,500 to anyone who can prove that the claims made by Durant and his followers are true.

There are many styles of martial arts, including Traditional Japanese Martial Arts. This "goshin jutsu" crap is not Japanese. Durant has never received any type of rank from a Japanese organization or instructor. If you want to learn Japanese Martial Arts of any kind, stay away from this crowd.
If you want to learn a fake style of "karate" from a crazy redneck with a criminal record, then the Durant organization is for you.
Before taking your kids to sign up for these classes - you may want to look into why the current "soke" Durant was in prison.

 

The Japanses did not invent KARATE so they should lay no claim to it. The fact is all fighting arts have been evolving and changing. I also feel the accounts of LIES should not be over looked. I find it very funny how arts American creaters of fighting styles always come up with very Asian sounding names, often mixing terms from

 

SORRY , MIXING TERMS FROM CHINA JAPAN , OKINAWA to make it sound ancient. Tell the truth " I CAN FIGHT , WANT TO SEE HOW I FIGHT OCME ON DOWN TO MY SCHOOL" and FRAUD IS FRAUD.

 

I just started a school called Cain do karate

Sue me!

|Cain|

 

Would that be Michael Cain e Do?
Citizen Cain e Do?
Or Wicker Cane Do?

 

there's a big difference between "your style sucks" and "your founder lies about his background".

The first is just blah blah BS, the second is important information (when backed by facts! only when backed by facts!)

I don't mind threads like this WHEN THEY OFFER FACTS AND EXPOSE LIES.

 

KENPO DAVE - Well said I agree as long as the statmenets are explained with FACT and not things the heard or read on another forum.

 

The facts

Like some of the others, I couldn't care less about people studying this "goshinjutsu" if that is what they want to do.
Like KenpoDavid said, "I don't mind threads like this WHEN THEY OFFER FACTS AND EXPOSE LIES". That is what I want to do. It has nothing to do with petty martial arts politics.
It has to do with telling the truth and protecting the reputations of 2 good men and great martial artists - Shogo Kuniba and Richard Baillargeon.
If you read the whole history of the Durant style it simply can not be true - things just don't add up.
The current leaders of this organization try to claim that Durant was the 12th person in history to earn a Shodan in karate. This would have him there at the begining when Karate was introduced to Japan and would have him as a vary senior student. If this were true he would have been a very famous man.
But it is not true. And since there is no evidence to support this claim, there had to be a new story - the "Samurai Prince" who taught him Karate. Well the man was either a Samurai or a Prince - not both. There is the first error and indication of a fabricated story. This man was supposed to have been named Murikami - not one of the names of the Royal Family and not a known clan. So it seems there was no Murikami. Not too mention the claim is that this Murikami is the man who introduced Karate to Japan. A pretty ridiculous claim.
There is also the claim that Durant came home from Japan as a 6th Dan. At that time period he would have outranked Funakoshi, which again would have made him a very famous person. But still no one heard of him.
Now skip ahead to the 1970's. when Durant really started his training in PA. He claimed to be a representative of the Seishinkai. This is simply a lie. There is no record of him. Richard Baillrgeon was the rep for Seishinkai. There are also claims that Durant had a 5th Dan granted by Mr. Baillargeon. Again this is not true. The certificate is a fake and the signature is too. Not too mention that it is the wrong signature. Shogo Kuniba signed the Seishinkai certificates - not Mr. Baillargeon.
The claim is also made that Durant trained at the Osaka Kodokan in the 1930's. Not only did this branch not exist then, but the Kodokan says that he never earned any rank any where at any time.
The claim was also made that Durant learned Aikido and Aikijujitsu in the 1940s - during the period of time such practice was banned. There was no Aikido again until after the war. There is also no record anywhere in any Aikido organization of Durant training or getting rank. I can only assume the claims of this Aikijujitsu training are just as bogus.
If the durant followers want to promote this "new style" that is fine. But tell the truth and just say durant made it up after reading a few books and having a few months of training.
It is wrong to lie about the origins of the system and about where and who he trained with.
It is especially wrong to forge a man's name on a rank certificate.

If you want to study an inferior system with a bunch of clowns, rednecks and losers who lie with just about every word they speak, then the durant style is for you.
If you want to learn effective self-defense, or are interested in authentic Japanese Budo/Bujutsu - then you will want to stay away from this group.

 

"We also have to do what we call waza. Prearranged self defence"
In all other ryu, this would be either Kata or Ippon Kumite. This is another example of Durant not knowing the terminology that goes with what he taught.
Can you explain this lack of knowledge? Why, in all his training did he never learn the Japanese terms.
How could he have lived and trained in Japan for so long, becoming one of the highest ranking black belts, and never learn the language or the basic lingo?
Could it be that the fact is that virtually every single claim made by the goshin jutsu groups today has proven to be a lie?

 

I have received and closely examined 4 certificates issued to Gerard/Gerald Durant.
Two of them promote Durant to 10th Dan, one in “Tatsu Do Karate” the other in “Tatsu Do Aikijutsu”. William Cavalier and Daiku Yama sign both certificates.
There are a number of problems with the certificates, starting with the fact that they look they were made by a child using a copy machine. Aside from the arguments that these are not legitimate styles and that Cavalier was of “lower rank” than the person being promoted, there is one glaring problem: The same person who signed the name William Cavalier also signed the name Daiku Yama. The handwriting shares too many characteristics to believe otherwise.
Daiku Yama is not a real Japanese name. This person obviously signed a fake Japanese name on the certificate in order to deceive people.

I have also reviewed 2 supposed Seishinkai documents issued to Durant and supposedly signed by Richard P. Baillargeon. At first glance, these documents look legitimate. But upon closer look, they are seen as falsified.

The Baillargeon signatures look strikingly similar to the signature on my certificates. But the 2 signatures on the 2 Durant certificates appear to have been written by different people.

One of the certificates is an award certificate “issued to Durant” for his hard work and dedication in promoting Karate. This certificate has 2 signatures, Richard P. Baillargeon and a Wm. Rbt. Jenkins. It is dated January 1969. First of all Mr. Baillargeon was in Pakistan and not actively running the Seishin Kai. Second, the same person that signed the name Daiku Yama on the “10 Dan” certificates also wrote the word “January” on this certificate. The signature of Wm. Robt. Jenkins also shares characteristics with William Cavalier’s signature on the 10th Dan certificates. If Mr. Baillargeon’s signature on this certificate is real, it may just be a mass produced certificate with a pre-printed signature. Or he signed some blanks. Either way, this certificate was not issued by Mr. Baillargeon to Durant.

The 4th certificate is a Seishin Kai school charter issued to Durant identifying him as Go-Dan. This certificate is not dated, although there is a place for the date on it.
The signature again, looks good but there are some differences when compared to Mr. Baillargeon’s signature on my certificates. This Baillargeon signature also shares some characteristics with the signatures of Daiku Yama and William Cavalier on the 10th Dan certificates.

I must maintain that these documents have been falsified for the purpose of misleading potential students of the “goshin jutsu” organization created by Durant and his cohorts.

 

Hi everyone. I am new to this group and only found it by searching for Ken Allgeier, who continues to spam my friends and I, who studied with Master Gerard Durant in the past in Goshin Jutsu Karate. I am actually indebted to Ken for mailing me the tape he talks about in previous posts, and yes, Durant was crude and rude, and definitely not politically correct. But he was definitely the best person I have ever seen in the martial arts.

I am indebted to Ken for the tape he sent me, because in the hotly contested mall demonstration where Durant does a lot of showing off, and there are some weird people demonstrating (not puting my good friends Larry Ruiz Sensei, or James Fife Sensei into this group), there are also some outstanding Sai against Bo techniques, and Nunchaku against Knife techniques, shown by Durant, which I simply could not have found anywhere else.

In the early 1970's when I was a green belt, I had two occasions to uki for Master Durant when he was demonstrating Aiki-Jutsu techniques to my Sensei, who I continue to study with to this day near Lake Erie in Ohio. The first technique, he threw me by grabbing my right striking arm, and when I got up, I found I had four pressure points on my arm that I had never felt before. The second time, he asked me to grab his right wrist. The next thing I knew, I was horizontal in the air searching for the mat to slap. I was totally awed and shaken. I also had the opportunity to witness Durant perfom the Kata - San Chin - that he performed in the mall. But I saw him do it fifteen years prior to that, when he did not yet have the cancer that forced him to move to Texas. I had never seen anything like it, and have not since, from anyone.

I had the opportunity to participate in a class with Teruo Chinen Sensei in Chicago, where he was kind enough to show us the Goju-Ryu Kata Tensho. Chinen Sensei was the closest to a true Master that I have ever seen, outside of Master Durant. But in my humble opinion, I put them on a peer level.

Some of the people that Ken likes to discredit, are some really great Martial Artists like Soke William Cavalier. I love to go to their Karate Clinic in Geneseo, NY near Rochester in February when I can. I also like their Annual Tournament in Livonia, NY every year. The last time I went, there were well over a hundred dan ranks in attendance with scores of students from all over the country, and from many different styles. If he is so bad, why would so many good karateka flock there. I love to go on Friday night for Cavalier's Aiki Clinic. One year I had my wife tape it. At home, I distilled over 40 techniques learned in three hours time. Great and very streetworthy techniques, that also pushed the envelope for innovation and thought. Not bad for $8. These people are heart and soul people, not there for the money. I have been keeping track of the Aiki techniques I have learned from Durant and his students over the years, and I have cataloged over 250. OK, maybe he never went to Japan before the war (but he did), but he learned them from someone good. Most people have a picture of Funikoshi on their wall. Durant had a picture of Master Ueshiba, and early on he taught us of the brilliance of this fine Master who he referred to as one of his teachers.

I am also not saying that Goshin Jutsu is traditional, at least in the conventional sence. But try out this experience I had while living in Chicago. I have a good friend who is a Ni Dan in Kendo. He is from Osaka, and was one of the champions of his dojo. I showed him some of my kata that I learned directly from Durant and his students. Taka thought that my kata were the most authentic he had ever seen, the type he saw in the neighborhood when he was growing up, and he asked me how a person outside of Japan could know such things, which he considered to be national treasures. He often had me demonstrate these to the multinational students of Loyalla University, where I performed a Sai Kata for representatives of the Japanese Consulate. I learned what I showed them from Durant, and they were impressed. http://user.mc.net/~hugh/Pictures.htm

Anyway, in my limited way of looking at things, lineage is not as important as spirit. Most of my good friends that have been in the arts for over 25 years were students in those early classes in the 70s, and we have good memories of our instruction that still keeps us going.

Thanks for reading. Train hard and don't bash people for trying to better themselves. Hopefully, I havn't intruded on any important threads.

Hugh Cassidy - aikihugh

 

If you put a 2-bit con-man with no training on the same level as Chinen Sensei, ou have either been seriously brain-washed by the Durant-ites or are severely mentally deficient.
Durant's technique was nothing but crap.
Every single story he has told in relation to his "training" has been proven to be a lie. All of his certificates have been fakes - excpet for the one signed by Cavalier his student which is not worth the papaer it is printed on.
If you are looking for a real martial arts school, keep looking beyond those schools with lineage to durant. You will be wasting your time and your money training with these frauds.
This "goshin jutsu" goes well beyond just bad "karate" - it is all fake and they are all a bunch of liars.

 

Can we have a new section called "politics"

|Cain|

 

Why not - we have this one about frauds, cons, liars, fake karate
and forged certificates!

 

Hello,
I see some familiar names being thrown around here. My first Sensei was (is) Bob Zepecki, who was in Peshawar Pakistan with Baillargeon Sensei. Baillargeon did indeed sign my Shodan certificate, and I would be happy to also make a comparison for you folks. I will enlist the aid of a local police department where I have some acquaintances who are in the same Guard unit that I am in; we can get professional handwriting analysis. Just send me the clearest copies available and I will gladly do this.
It is certainly true that this Durant's claims sound bogus. I have not researched them, but the burden of proof should be on one claiming such things. I would like to run this down myself, because I too have a distaste for fraud. Also, the man has used the names of folks who I trained with (Baillargeon, Kuniba).
I can view his tapes and tell you in about 30 seconds if he ever worked with Kuniba, or Baillargeon. Those who knew Baillargeon know that he did very, very sloppy kata, but that he was extremely effective at making the techniques in them work. Baillargeon did not bother to make his kata pretty. Kuniba, on the other hand, had finesse, and liked to encorporate ideas from the various other arts he had studied into his Binkai Oyo, and even back into his katas on occasion. I can identify the signature techniques and differences of both of these men on sight.
Also, if it turns out Durant did not get his katas from them, I can most likely figure out where they did originate based on my extensive library of tapes of different styles. What do you say we settle this thing? If the history is bogus, then drop it. If his certifications are bogus, stop citing them. Who knows what he looks like until I see him work myself; until then that is as far as I will go. My E-mail is cajgodan@yahoo.com . Please do contact me and lets arrange to share some of this material.

-Chris A. Johnston

 

They are fake!

Chris,

Have Ken Allegier send you what he has. Mine are copies of his.
There are other problems in addition to the Baillargeon signatures.

First there are the Japanse Seishin Kai certificates. One shows the name of a Kodokan judo teacher who died 10 years before the date on the certificate. Durant also claimed to be a representative in the U.S. of Seishin Kai starting in 1958, and claimed that Hohan Soken was head of the Seishin Kai.
On his "Japanese" certificates, a lot of the kanji is upside down and or backwards and much of it is just jibberish.

Some of the differences in the Baillargeon signatures have been explained to me. These may have been pre-printed certificates that were signed by his brother (the printer) who had a similar signature. But what these certs lack is a seal that would have made them official.

By all appearances, Durant got these certificates from James Benko when Baillargeon was in Pakistan. You would know more about this time period than I would.

Durant was actually on the rolls as a member of Seishin Kai, but not as a teacher. Plus he never trained with anyone of any substantial rank. Based on other claims he made, it is safe to assume that his only direct contact with anyone was with Benko.

Durant was a loud-mouthed redneck who always made his presence known. If you ask around, you will find people who heard his name around but probably won't find someone who met him, trained with him or taught him.

You shoudl read his other claims - like training with "Murakami" - The Samurai Prince who introduced Karate and Kungfu to Japan.
This is probably the most laughable of his claims.

Ken's tape is a real joke too.

Jim Mc Coy

 

Good lord! Can't you give it a rest already?

Nobody cares, this is a discussion forum not the parliment or the whitehouse y'know

|Cain|