Hi, This post is really intended for Rsobrien and Bronze Statue: There are various differences between modern Muay Thai (Muay Thai) and older Thai *martial arts* (I will use Muay Chaiya as my example) and I will try and outline *what* the main differences are (of course, this will only scratch the very surface) as well as *why*. Necessarily, I will need to leave out a huge amount of information! In addition, there are various resources on Muay Chaiya etc., but the best are alive and well in Thailand… Let's deal with the ‘Why?’ first. WHY? Originally, Muay Chaiya was developed as a national response to a need to protect Thailand. Therefore, it is a full-blown unarmed fighting system that deals with any situation that a warrior may face after he no longer has use of his exterior weapons (see Krabi Krabong). Consequently, Muay Chaiya includes locks, breaks, smashes, and ground-fighting as well as strikes. At the beginning of the last century, a Cambodian boxer was killed when fighting against Muay Chaiya, so Muay Kad Cheuk (boxing with hemp-bound fists was banned, at least officially and later re-emerged as Muay Thai, including with it many more echoes of Queensbury Rules and lacking the full profile of offensive and defensive techniques, such as joint manipulations (which are difficult to execute when wearing gloves!) and any ground fighting. Many of the techniques transformed into variations of the originals and that is what we see today. WHAT? Muay Chaiya (which was constructed as a system about 250 years ago, or thereabouts) has a large profile of offensive and defensive moves (the defensive also being the offensive, too!) which include striking as well as grappling. Muay Chaiya practitioners learn the basic footwork (Yang Sam Khum) and basic defenses before moving on to offensive techniques. The reason for this is twofold: 1. Footwork is incredibly important, especially mastering the Yang Sam Khum and Tah Kru (master stance), from which the more advanced moves are executed; if you are unstable, or incorrectly positioned, you will not be able to execute techniques effectively and are likely to put yourself in danger. 2. Sparring using Muay Chaiya can be *very* painful if one is not good at defending, as is the case with most martial arts, but perhaps especially true of Muay Chaiya given it’s offensive defense techniques! That is why so much emphasis is put on footwork and defense at the start of Muay Chaiya training. The guard is vastly different from Muay Thai, too. Even when striking, the guard almost never changes and tends to swivel in position with the head, rather than letting an arm drop to the side. And, as has been discussed, an open hand is often used to block the ears when blocking and striking (it can be a fist, too) for protection purposes, as the arm blocks the rib cage and side of the face and the hand blocks the ear. REGARDING AN HISTORICAL DOCUMENT Well, the best historical documents of the old systems are actually living, so the best way to access them is to come to Thailand for an extended time and study with one of the masters, whether than be Col. Amnat, Kru Preang, or a number of others. There are English translations of all the techniques of Muay Chaiya (apparently translated from Kru Tong’s notes – Kru Tong was one of the last living masters of Muay Chaiya), although I think it will be very difficult for you to come by them unless you get *seriously* involved in Muay Chaiya. If you are looking for some Indiana-Jones-type ‘lost document’, then I’m afraid that you won’t find it, especially in English! Bottom line: if you are serious about learning an old system in its entirety, then come to Thailand and seek instruction from a master, or try and contact one of the very few Westerners who actually know what they are talking about (Vincent Giordano, in New York, is a good example). I haven’t talked about the issues surrounding the terminology ‘Muay Boran’ as Kru Kao did a pretty good job of outlining that already, although he didn’t mention that Muay Boran is a recent coinage, which describes a re-configured system of some of the old Muay Thai techniques. It was developed as an (physical) educational curriculum as well as a way to preserve the older techniques that are ‘dying out’. As Khun Kao (I think) mentioned, a lot of Muay Boran is taught out of context as the ‘teachers’, many of whom, as aforementioned, have little technical and contextual knowledge, especially Western ‘teachers’ who have jumped on the Ong Bak bandwagon. There are one or two pretty famous guys (Westerners) who are great at marketing and presentation (and are probably now very wealthy), but who are not really taken seriously by those can distinguish between a veneer of excellence without substance, and a comprehensive understanding and mastery of full-blown systems such as Muay Chaiya. So, what constitutes Muay Boran is not ‘made-up’, although perhaps the concept is, and locating a romantic, ancient artifact that reveals the secrets of ‘old-style’ Thai boxing is profoundly unlikely. If you want a scholarly work, then read Panya Kraitus’ ‘book-bible’ about Muay Thai (although there is also some controversy surrounding his direct association with Muay Chaiya grandmaster Ket Sriyapai who allegedly, on his deathbed, asked him to write a textbook on Muay Thai), subscribe to Vince Giordano’s Vanishing Flame newsletter by dropping him a mail (his book by the same name is also scheduled for release soon), or learn to read Thai! I hope this helps to demystify the basics.
i think col amants thing was to present an overview of the theories and techs as it was in a seminar format then go back to do a more detailed, unifted approach to the old systems tying together the old theories and strategies that are hard for a westerner to get translated and grasp. he was more trying to get across the old links to theories.Of ocurse you have as stated the fuller muay chaiya,korat,lana stuff of which is specific and detailed. so i think hopefully in the future there will be more detailed material as well more detailed info from the different styles from the teachers of those styles. amnat is not the author but the translator of the old texts which have taken years to translate. i see alot more dvds in the future coming out from other sources in thailand and abroad. The drills also shown are done for various reasons, some for reflex and quick action, some with power, etc. They didnt have much equipment for speed, timing etc so alot of muay boran drills were for different factors.
Imba http://www.muaythai.it/english/imba.html Anyonbe familiar with this organization? Seems very interesting for me at least. They actually have bareknuckle competition too eventhough head punches are not allowed.
To answer this part of the original posters comment.. check out Bokor. It's not thai per-say but it's most definately an awesome system from around that area. Google it, theres a bit about it as it's being re-created, failing that get in contact with me and I can put you on to someone who's in the know
Sorry, yes. I'm used to shortening it when discussing it Very very awesome, quite different from Thai in that it's more animal stance oriented but it's still got a myriad of knee/elbow strikes.. also has a lot of grappling and groundwork
A common claim these days among martial artists is, "I was learning Muay Boran before Ong Bak came out." Sure ya did... Ask them where and from whom they studied, and they start making all sorts of excuses. I honestly think Muay Boran will die out before it is saved.
Totally agree, those are great sources if you are interested in learning more about Muay Boran. Colonel Amnat's seminar DVDs are great, very well done. De Cesaris has also produced books and DVDs on Muay Boran, and several articles on the history, you can probably find some on his website.
Actually there are people trying to keep in alive- Ajahn Marko de Cesaris is working with various teachers in Thailand to research it more and to keep it alive. He has a very good book out that I picked up at asia books in Siam paragon(even in thailand this was the only book I found on Muay Buran)- "Muay Thai Buran, the martial arts of Thailand" Not the easiest of reads but deffinately well written and informitive. Much of what has been written here is echoed in the book. I would recomend it to everyone. Oh and Dtang Jai, Great post!!!
