Gikan ryu

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by jameswhelan, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Who are these people?
     
  2. hatsie

    hatsie Active Member Supporter

    I bet one is Swedish with around 47 black belts lol
     
  3. garth

    garth Valued Member

    And he (Poryu) believes that hearsay from himself, by people he will probably not name is a good enough source to prove his point. As he says...

    Which of course is not a reference at all its just a story.

    His story
     
  4. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    Sounds a bit like you are saying he's lying for some reason.

    Is there a reason you think that?
     
  5. garth

    garth Valued Member

    No what i'm saying is that if you make a claim the burden of proof lies on you.

    Take a look at what has happened. Poryu has claimed I am wrong and thats fine he's entitled to do that, but in effect what that means is that if anyone is saying someone is lying, or in error its Poryu. So he's made a counter claim i.e. his story.

    Thats fine i've provided the link I saw back in 1995 which is the one I responded to at the time.

    Now Poryu has come out with a story about two people he has not named and a story. Unfortunately Burden of proof requires a little bit more than this.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2012
  6. Fudo-shin

    Fudo-shin Valued Member

    guys as stated.earlier, my best friend at the time had a manual of kata of the ryu-ha he had got while in japan from a famous frenchman back in 88 showing air ad gikan ryu.
     
  7. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Ok guys I dont know how this is going to appear but for some reason my page is now backwards so having trouble even reading let alone posting so I will not be continuing with this discussion until its fixed.

    Is anyone else experienceiing this problem?
     
  8. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Nice attitude there, Garth might be many things, but he's always polite.


     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2012
  9. Big Will

    Big Will Ninpô Ikkan

    I understand where you are coming from.

    My strong opinion is that it the end it's all about the individual and his own practice. It's the student's responsibility to practice, test himself and keep going. The results of course will vary, but for each individual student it's about going forward. Traditionally, the master has many students but one successor. Not everyone can be world champion, so to speak. But you can't compare this art to another just like that - just like you can't say Mike Tyson would be great at jūdō, we do not know if Kacem excel in jūdō. And you keep comparing him to Doug Wilson - do you think that their practice or experience in this art is the same? I would wage that they are very different.

    And, to continue with my soup analogy, everyone can have the soup at the restaurant. Some can't taste the difference to other soups, some can't identify each ingredient, and most can't reproduce the same soup at home. It's as simple as that.

    I would say that in an art like this, the master is a master and the disciple is a disciple. Nothing more, nothing less. The transmission finds a way from that.
     
  10. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Oh did Poryu insult me, oh well I bet its not half as bad as the email he sent me when he was selling shuriken illegally on ebay.
     
  11. kouryuu

    kouryuu Kouryuu

    Hope you kept it?
     
  12. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    In the early 90s there was a relatively small circle of people from the uk travelling to Japan for training

    Many of us shared information freely and swapped notes so to speak

    Sadly some of this content being ended up being sold for profit. Worse still it was being sold by people who didn't make the effort and incur the costs to travel to Japan. Rightly or wrongly this resulted in some misinformation (even several in jokes) being put out there

    Nowadays the amount of information freely available is much greater so the issue has essentially resolved itself*

    I'm not sure if this is the source of the misunderstanding here, but it's worth keeping this in mind when sourcing info from this time, particularly if you were not one of those who were travelling to japan*
     
  13. stephenk

    stephenk Valued Member

    Who cares? We just landed a dune-buggy on Mars. What lessons did those scientists and engineers take from Newton? The hand he wrote with, the paper he used, and the type of quill and ink or the thirst for knowledge, innovation, and understanding?

    Call me biased, but you have to cherry pick a whole lot of quotes to imply that Sensei thinks it's important to know whether to use the right hand or the left for the 14th technique of the second scroll of the seventh school.

    Truth be told, I probably wouldn't be training in the Bujinkan if he did. Because that just doesn't make any sense. I didn't really know what the guy I called trained in, I was just visiting a lot of MA teachers. What I did know is that he did stuff no one else could do.

    People need to both take their training more and less seriously at the same time. Or, at least define for themselves WHY they are training. Once you answer that all the other questions go away.
     
  14. stephenk

    stephenk Valued Member

    BTW, everyone knows that this 'Bujinkan' thing is going to blow up at some point. Right? What will you be left with? That's a fine question that I've known my answer to for 10 years.
     
  15. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Great post Stephen and as an answer to your question one only has to look at the birth of christainity to answer that .
     
  16. skuggvarg

    skuggvarg Valued Member

    If you cling on to something like an organisation there is always that risc. The teachings wont go away even if the Bujinkan does, which is what I find most important. Hopefully those you have good relationship with will stay too. Personally, nothing would change in my world if I wake up tomorrow and the Bujinkan is no more. Not saying I wish it will happen. On the contrary I am thankful that the organisation exists and that I could start practising the arts. In a way similar to how I wouldnt have come in contact with ninjutsu if it werent for SKH Ninja books...

    / Skuggvarg
     
  17. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Continuing stephen's analogy: I kinda think of the forms as being like the gcse and A level Maths papers that all the NASA scientists would be able to do in their sleep

    Like the shihan I doubt that the scientists can remember the specifics of all the exercises (they studied them deeply but ages ago) and the exercises themselves are not a means to an end. However, they can pick up any paper and score 100% every time

    Although I'd suggest that all the NASA guys would be very familiar with the lessons from Newton, pythagoras etc
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2012
  18. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    A good analogy.
     
  19. stephenk

    stephenk Valued Member

    I think your analogy is good. I think I have a differing opinion on some small things, but agree in far larger part.
     
  20. stephenk

    stephenk Valued Member

    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2012

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