full contact WC equipment

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by Gong_Sau_Rick, Jan 9, 2008.

  1. Gong_Sau_Rick

    Gong_Sau_Rick ultimate WSL nutrider

    I had a long elaborate story to go with this post, but I thought I would just get to the point.

    First for the WC guys and to a lesser extent some of the KF guys who trap: What do you guys use/recommend for full contact exercises/sparring/whatever?

    Now to all you other guys who are eavesdropping on the kung fu tea party: After using our ancient old school equipment (miraculously I could just still "cut" someone's punch with a 16oz boxing glove from the early 90s) I've been talking with my instructor and some other seniors from my club about upgrading our equipment since none of it is really designed for WC and technology and MA fashion has progressed.

    Ok so here are some ideas I've been having...

    First let's look at the gloves.

    humble cloth karate mitt
    Ahhh... the humble karate mitt. I'm sure we all still have an old pair lying around the house somewhere. I know I do, my pair is probably molding over as we speak feeding on the dried up sweat from days gone by and silly point sparring; anyway I saw some guys from my club with pairs of black ones (yes, sexy) doing some gwoh sau. I think it had something to do with a prior experience of when fist met teeth.

    So they've pretty much got no padding at all, but I'm still open to them as I probably would be able to take some blows to the body from them and head gear is still an option as well, they are probably the most realistic and less restrictive. Any WCers use them for anything?

    WTF glove... wtf?
    Indeed, I didn't even know TKD guys used gloves or had an official glove. But then again I'm TKD celibate. I have no idea how much padding they have and what sort of contact level they are designed for (they look like bicycle gloves to be honest). What I do like about them is that they look like they could have ok padding, and they look very sleek, comfortable, maneuverable etc... so I can do pak sau, tan sau, fok sau, lap sau, jut sau etc...

    Do TKD guys even use these let alone other MAers?

    almighty MMA glove
    Now this seems like the natural choice, after all it's meant to be designed to be nonrestrictive for any style "no rules" real ultimate fighting. But I don't know there's something I don't like about this glove I put on a pair a while ago and didn't like the feel, it was as if my jaw line was being elongated and my brow ridge deepening, growing hair on my cheeks with my arms doubling in size reaching down to my shins and starting to say "uhug, thug and lug" as part on my new cave man vocabulary. Just kidding... :D

    It seems to me that there are now quite a large variety of different gloves for MMA cats out there, some harder, some softer, some larger, some lighter etc... any recommendations for WC guys? Since I would imagine there would be a few ideal (or better) "models" out there for us. That heavier the strapping/anchoring around the wrist the worse it gets for trapping range fighting.

    Some more versions:

    Also what's with the "gel padded" versions are they "t3h w1N" or not really that different/great? Maybe I should just drain someone of cerebro-spinal fluid and fill an airtight MMA glove with it or something. Ultimate shock absorption. :D

    AKF mitt
    Now this is what I'm currently liking at the moment since I have an old pair that are a bit too big but I can do pretty much everything in (thinking of going a size down and getting a new pair in red). I can do a technically perfect WC punch (straight line, forearms brush past reloading fist) in them and can tan and jut which is basically all I need, but I can do pretty much everything else maybe even chi sau in them.

    They're light and seem to have good padding for their size/weight, apparently they're used in full contact karate matches, or so I've been told; need to verify this. We will probably be using headgear as well since will be going completely apeshit with our hair on fire and our eye balls all bulging out and veiny you get the idea...

    A possible problem is that they (well at least my oversized pair) seem to not be secured on the hand very well, this was posed to me as a possible problem. Any karateka have complaints about these?

    kensapo/kudo glove
    Now these look interesting. Seriously I'm starting to think the karate guys have the best equipment for WCers and maybe even TMAers in general. Maybe it's just the Japanese inventiveness factor.

    Designed to be used with the head gear I'll talk about later. These funnily enough from their look are used in full contact kudo matches, so they got to be good right?... right? They seem interesting but I don't know where I'd be able to get any except the internet (oh noez!) which I've seen they're a bit expensive. Regardless, they look like a good choice for WC functionality since they're so light.

    lighter boxing glove
    I don't really need a picture since I'm sure you all know what boxing gloves are and look like. Still any WCers using lighter boxing gloves, I've found that they're (my pair) WAY to bulky, even punching vertically, no trapping, no WC even is awkward. But still lighter, sleeker boxing gloves could be ok since I have seen functioning WC in boxing gloves before, I just want to be able to use most of my tools unmodified and feel natural...

    Anyway what are WCers, KFers, generic vertical punchers, experiences with boxing gloves.

    Now to the headgear...

    full face head protector
    I don't really have much to say about headgear since I'm completely clueless when it comes to them. This boxing headgear any good for WC?

    kusakura kumite mask
    Perspex baby! I wonder about the pros and cons of perspex visors as opposed to cages etc...

    kudo headgear (space helmet)
    Although these look absolutely ridiculous, "karate aliens for space" I get the impression they're well designed and since they've been used in lots of kudo matches that they've undergone many revisions and refinements. I've heard that they protect the head and jaw very well, however I have some concerns.

    The space bubble is a bit too... well forward don't you think? I think it's to prevent the bubble fogging up or something but isn't this going to interfere with reach and distance etc... be interested to hear the Daido Juku guys on this one.

    Free fighting head guard

    Cheap, but it also looks like it will do the job. Protects the jaw, mouth and nose. I think I've seen some WC guys use this stuff so why not? I guess I don't feel like following in other WC guys footsteps, with all their crappy kickboxing etc...

    Also this thing I just found:
    for protecting mouth, nose and jaw as well. Any advantages/disadvantages over the cage?

    Well that's it for now folks, I've got to get something to eat...
  2. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Nice article man. It's a no brainer in that the MMA gloves are probably what most people looking to be able to use their grip/clench skills and striking skills would go with. There are enough brands/styles of MMA gloves to suit just about everyones personal taste. Many in the KF crowd aren't going to be pleased to wear an MMA glove... but the reality is... the MMA crowd actually spends more time with realistic impacts and dealing with realistic strikes and their consequences that faffin' around with forms or imaginary sparring where no one hits anyone.

    In terms of headgear... the less the better. Why?
    Because it doesn't do much to protect the brain. Yes it save you a bit of glove scrape... but in terms of padding the brain... not really. The brain still gets jogged from a shot to the head. There isn't enough padding on any of them to make any difference. The negative side of them is that for some reason people tend to think that if they put on headgear they can then get punched in the head as much as they want and it has no effect because they're wearing headgear. Nothing could be further from the truth. Every hit with headgear on is still a hit. The brain is still being jogged around in the cranial cavity. Don't be fooled by it.

    You could always go the way of many Wing Chunners... and that is to don a motorcycle helmet... lol... which is great if you need to be conditioned to fighting while wearing a motorcycle helmet. :rolleyes:

    Besides... most of it sucks big eggs to spar in. It gets sweaty, slips down and blocks vision etc. In general a massive waste of time.

    Further to that... the whole point of copping a punch is to make you wary of them and show you just how weak your game is... if there are no real consequences from a punch... your putting garbage into your central nervous system. You're conditioning yourself to take punches that aren't even close to what a real punch feels like. It's foolish. Garbage in garbage out as far as the CNS is concerned.

    To be honest I'm surprised you didn't include t3h d34dl13st glove around:

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 9, 2008
  3. g-bells

    g-bells Don't look up!

    don't be hating on BL slippy :Alien:
  4. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    I'm not hatin' on him. I think it's funny how he bears and uncanny resemblance to what so many in the KF community get wound up by. MMA. :D
    Besides I've played around with that style of glove... they're horrible and they're expensive. They don't work well as a boxing glove and they don't really work well as a grappling glove. The MMA type glove is pretty much the logical extension of that glove. The refined version. I think it's cool that ol Bruce was thinking outside the box. More people would do well to follow his example.

    Besides any glove that a person puts on has to be broken in by plenty of bag work. This is true for any glove. So the glove you put on fresh at the store is not the same glove once it's broken down a bit and made to fit your hand. That just takes lots of bag/pad work. This is why it's a crappy thing to go to a gym and just slip on someone elses bag gloves and work the bag or the pads. It's generally why most boxers and nak muays have their own bag gloves.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2008
  5. Gong_Sau_Rick

    Gong_Sau_Rick ultimate WSL nutrider

    LOL I know, the start of enter the dragon looks like an MMA match as if Bruce knew what was coming.

    Thanks slip for the advice on the headgear, I didn't think they would be so useless. Still interested in what the Daido Juku spacemen have to say.
  6. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Where I train BJJ they also have a Shorinjiryu kenkokan Karatedo and http://www.koshiki.org/index.htm. Jeez what a mouthful... but anyhow... they use the bubble helmets. They looks like a hassle... but I guess the advantage is that for people who have a job where they can't show up with some bruising or glove scrape... they do the trick.
  7. SirVill

    SirVill Valued Member

    Yeah, I'd say the advantage of the plastic faceguard or the full face cage thing is the lack of black eyes and broken noses rather than ko's. That's the only reason I'd say go for one of those.
  8. Gong_Sau_Rick

    Gong_Sau_Rick ultimate WSL nutrider

    Well yes that's what the headgear would mostly be for, preventing black eyes and broken noses. A lot of the people who go to my club need to keep up appearances since they're businessmen in suits etc...
  9. SirVill

    SirVill Valued Member

    Hahah... I hear that! I work with judges everyday so if I came in looking like I'd be in a fight the "you should see the other guy" jokes wouldn't go down too well.
  10. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    my experience of headgear apart from what has been mentioned already is that it gets in the way - if you're doing clinch and takedowns, you will probably find your headgear keeps getting pulled off, to the side - basically you'll keep having to stop to re-adjust.

    Also your periferal vision is reduced, and you can't hear properly.

    glove scrape I can imagine it helps against, but broken nose/black eyes? I don't imagine it reduces it that much at all. I tend to fight with 10-14oz gloves so this wouldn't be so much of a problem,.

    I always feel I get hit in the head more when I have headgear on.

    I would rather wear heavier gloves then light gloves and headgear.

    That bubble helmet looks bizare! I could imagine how annoying it would be to take jabs to the extended bubble.
  11. Sam

    Sam Absent-ish member

    Karate mitts can be a pain in the backside sometimes, velcro gets caught or comes undone and after time the elastic strap you put your fingers through loosens and causes the glove to flap off like you've said. That aside they don't limit your hand techniques and soften the blow for your fist (not nessecarily the other persons face though).

    Recently I swapped the single strap mitt for these ones which have individual finger holes rather than one for all stays on alot better. http://www.blitzsport.com/prodinfo.asp?number=50-02
  12. Mr Punch

    Mr Punch Homicidal puppet

    I use your labelled 'almighty MMA glove' and the yellow 'full face head protector'... not the same brand but the same thing, and not metrosexual yellow but unimaginative manly black. :D

    I hate helmets with bubbles, bars across the face etc... they give you a false sense of distance and a false impact when hit (i.e. the movement of your head and consequent recovery is different). I only use one for kendo.

    Of course, if your chun school does 'the deadly eye-gouge'/'eye poke' in full contact, you may want to invest in some skiing goggles! :rolleyes: :D
  13. Gong_Sau_Rick

    Gong_Sau_Rick ultimate WSL nutrider

    Nice responses guys, appreciate it.

    Any clinches will be dissolved very quickly as they start (oh boy here come the flames) so it won't really be a problem. Against guys in my own club (I'll admit they're not thai boxers, or judoka... actually one of them is a 3rd dan judoka) during gwoh sau... let's just say I love attempts at clinching.

    Takedowns happen regularly during gwoh sau, but they're more of trips usually (we have not mats, just hard floorboards with rusty nails in them) so it should be okay.

    Well I do Wing Chun and not Capoeira so it should be ok. ;)

    Haha! good point, like our Aussie football players don't get hurt nearly as much as the American footballers, even though the Yanks wear tons of protective gear.

    Unfortunately that might not be an option for me.

    Yeah, but you'll be able to tell if a jab would have penetrated into the head and it will probably be intercepted anyway as we've been training a lot of that recently (my request :D).

    Jabs being easier to execute puts infighting at a disadvantage anyway.

    I don't mind about wear and tear since I'll just buy new ones if they start to fall to pieces. I want to know if they're appropriate for full contact in all the violence of the trapping range. Do you use those gloves from the link for full contact? Now tell me the truth my life is on the line here. :p

    LOL, I like black equipment too.

    With the full face head protector, what do you find that does for you Punch? Since it's designed for western boxing I would imagine it protects from hooks well due to the side parts coming together at the middle and the part at the bottom for uppercuts, straights would be the least protected especially the nose. But boxing straights are horizontal and done with a bulkier glove.

    What's your experience (it's hard to judge since I don't really know what you and your guys do) with a slim glove and vertical punches coming straight down the middle.

    Now me personally and any Chunner with half a brain, will prefer to change the angle slightly, especially ESPECIALLY in trapping range when intercepting, I imagine (which is why I'm asking for people's experiences :)) that the protector would provide better protection.

    Sorry if that didn't make any sense it's getting very late. :cool:

    Well I imagine you'd NEED to use one for kendo. :p

    But yes the false distance worries me a bit, especially with the kudo helmets. False impact doesn't really bother me, at least to begin with since in my experience with my schools particular brand of WC, we will naturally end up disabling an opponents ability to regain the centerline, which is comparable to a a submission in that the opponent can't continue fighting anyway.

    Nup, we focus very little on eye-gouges. They have very limited use, in that you'll rarely be in a position to gouge without putting yourself in the firing line.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2008
  14. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    I just remember from practising under sanshou ruleset (i think they are 5 sec clinch before breakup) it was annoying having to stop to sort out the headgear all the time.

    lol no problems then :D wasn't sure if you had any multiple opponent practise, 1 on 1 i don't think it'd be much of an issue.
  15. Fire-quan

    Fire-quan Banned Banned

    My Grandad was a boxer, and his old leather boxing gloves that he used are still useable - 70 years later, lol. The crappy pair I bought a year ago have disintegrated to crap.

    Personally, i don't like those UFC mitts - the fingerless gloves with the padded tubes over the knuckle - I find they bend my wrist when I hit the bag. Especially as I use a Yiquan punch which is a little bent. Hmmm... let me re-phrase that....
  16. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    I'm personally not a fan of headgear, but then I say sod the job. I don't have to deal with customers that much . . . they can deal with it.

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