Fraud in UK Ju Jitsu in the 80's...Robert Clarke, Brian Dossett

Discussion in 'Ju Jitsu' started by Prizewriter, May 16, 2014.

  1. Prizewriter

    Prizewriter Moved on

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k_7l_SrcD8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k_7l_SrcD8[/ame]

    Informative and amusing. It would be nice to see more of this sort of journalism questioning martial arts ethics and practices.

    The Olympics in London for example, really exposed the petty politics and self interest of MA in the UK. To some extent in Judo, to a greater extent in Wrestling but by far and away the worst expose was on the governing body for TKD in the UK.

    I think the general public need to be informed as much as possible.

    That said, does anyone have any more information on the claims made by the poster of the youtube video in the description?
     
  2. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    I don't remember there being issues with judo at the Olympics.
     
  3. Prizewriter

    Prizewriter Moved on

  4. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

  5. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

  6. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    Definitely the right thing to do was to bitch out his own athletes before they were done competing while deflecting responsibility onto everyone but him. No way that could affect morale in the squad or embarrass the sport. Gibbons and Bryant went on to win medals after he'd embarrassed himself.
     
  7. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I remember a lot of politics over the TKD team for the Olympics.
     
  8. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    He'd just seen 7 of 8 athletes, including medal hopefuls lose in the first round of a home Olympics. His anger was more than justified.
     
  9. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    Anger? When you're in charge of a team and they lose, maybe "contrition" would be a bit more appropriate.
     
  10. GenghisK

    GenghisK Jiu Jitsu Kempoka

    Nothing new about martial arts politics is there. To me, that was all about one corner of martial arts having a go at another, and getting it on screen.

    I know Brian Dosset - he's still out there, and still running Spirit Combat International. He is a strong and difficult personality, and a good friend of mine has just had a very nasty experience after deciding that he had to take his club out of the association. But that doesn't change that BD is (or certainly has been in the past, he's no spring chicken now) a superb martial artist who generated many excellent instructors and new martial artists. That video alone shows some pretty good technique.


    Mind you, if he really was giving shodan-ho in a couple of days for 35 quid, they're absolutely right to criticise him. But it rather smacks of character assassination to me. But I know ex-students of his who are absolutely no fans of him any more, but I've never heard them accuse him of anything like that.


    Similarly, Robert Clarke has inspired and trained many people to a high standard over the years.

    That a karate instructor with a particular militaryesque take on things doesn't like one particular beginners training technique from a different style, or doesn't like the fact that SC merged various styles into a new approach is not to me a criticism of the approach.

    Okay, somebody with a criminal conviction for violence shouldn't be teaching.

    And again, what's actually wrong with 3 year olds practicing kata and light karate in a group?

    Politics !

    G
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2014
  11. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    Other than the controversy over Cook not being selected, what were the issues in TKD?

    Mitch
     
  12. Dan93

    Dan93 Valued Member

    Noted my old instructor Frank Perry Sensei and Dojo (Busen Twickenham) at the start of the clip.. Some good memories from that Dojo.. Osu! bloke was as hard as nails..

    Spirit combat had a big following in my old area (Feltham) and I have met/trained with a few of their students.. I know he was actively still fighting into a ripe old age althrough his choice of gi's (Camo anyone?) leave alot to be desired.

    I had a kickboxing class near me run out of a local social club by a friends father trained by Dosset which I used to pop down mainly for the cardio as a suppliment for my Muay Thai training, typical full contact karate chambered kicks, above the waist stuff but they were big on fitness..

    I ran into one of Dossets sons on a drunken night out in Staines once, trying to show me Nikkyo outside a nightclub... :) had a good chat about MA seemed nice enough and had a high regard for his father..
     
  13. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    I spent time training in kickboxing gyms under the Nippon Dai Budo-Kai banner.

    Some years ago mind, but my wife trained with them as recently as a year ago.

    Absolutely nothing wrong with them.

    Plenty of skilled kickboxers, kenpo-ka and ju-jitsu-ka in their ranks.
     
  14. Prizewriter

    Prizewriter Moved on

    Valid point. I think they do themselves a dis-service by undertaking dubious marketing practices, money making gimmicks and outright fraud though.
     
  15. fthl

    fthl www.jitsu.me

    I've had very limited exposure to BD, but know the same chap Genghis does above. The way that was handled was tragic. my observations are therefore:
    • a competent businessman
    • a very competent martial artist who has trained other very competent martial artists and instructors
    • a bit clueless when it comes to PR, especially when it comes to the use of social media.
     
  16. fthl

    fthl www.jitsu.me

    and hokey politics in martial arts in the 80s?

    What has changed? I think as long as you have martial arts associations you will have massive egos (which might be required to create a decent size association) and as a consequence you'll get rows, splits, and character assassination.

    It's how it has always been and, probably, always will be. I bet if you go back 500 years the old timers were having the same rows...
     
  17. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    the whole wjjf *origin thing is shady...

    * - EDIT

    wjjf now has some pretty decent judo folks but it has reaaally shady origins
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2014

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