Hi all When kicking to the thigh how do you hold your foot? Foot pointing down or up? Foot extended or toes up? I've seen all sorts of variation from highly qualified Muay Thai people -and they all have valid ustifications for the way they do it. What's your view?
I'm no kickboxing expert, but we do integrate some Thai boxing kicks into kyokushinkai, and the thigh kick is one of them. As far as I know, all the variations you described can be used in the thigh kick, but they tend to have different purpose's. The foot extended tends to be used to take the leg out and knock the fighter off balance, while the foot with toes back is used for a more painful deadening effect on the thigh
Surely if you are connecting with your shins it doesn't really matter. (Unless you are following up with a sweep of some sort) Maybe it's more down to personal preferance than a 'right or wrong way'.
If the foot is down, then there is tension in the muscles opposing the motion of the kick, slowing it down??? I am unsure whether this helps to make the leg more of a solid object though, in terms of the muscle supporting the bone ( anyone see that horrific shot of a Thai Boxer snapping his own leg throwing a low kick )! I don't really see any physiological relevance to toes up/down except in the structure of the foot on impact, and as this kick is usually impacted with the shin, I am unsure that this would make a difference If you place your hand on your shin bone, then pull up your foot, a muscle pops up alongside the bone! Would this soften or strengthen the kick? Andy
Interesting observations The same goes for blocking the low kick too - I've been told to keep my toes up, and to point my foot down. I guess it comes down to personal preference based on testing out all options. For me it seems that toes up gives more power - both in blocking & kicking.
The muscle in question goes by the name of "Tibialis Anterior". The muscle is involved in two main functions, one to provide the motion that pulls the foot up (dorsiflexion), and one that turns the sole of the foot inwards (inversion). I've sourced a pic of the muscle from the 'net, attached below. If one can imagine thrusting out a side kick, kicking with the outer (lateral) "edge" of the foot, with the toes pulled back, then Tibialis Anterior contracts to help position the foot so. I suppose it could be said that the position of the foot is related to the intention of the kick, as some have said in the thread already. I can't quite visualise the kick in question to the thigh (I ain't no Muay Thai Guy). Woah! What a Lyric! Someone write it down - sorry. Anyway, should I be thinking of the kick that is being discussed here as kicking with the shin, the "top of the foot", or the "ball of the foot"?
Thigh kick Hi again! My understanding of the toe up - toe down debate has also been clouded by information from both camps. My own take on it for what its worth: In both kicking and crushing I like to pull the foot to engage the muscles around the shin. In kicking this forces me to use the shin rather that the top of the foot. In defending/crushing I feel that engaging the muscles in the lower leg adds to the crush i.e. makes in more active. I seem to remember that there was a lot of discussion about this on the underground forum: http://www.mma.tv/ about a year ago. The main expert on the kickboxing/thai boxing forum was Kuhn Kow or something similar and I think he preferred the toe up position... Again my opinion/experience for what its worth - which ain't a whole lot in Thai. I'll try and bring this up at some point in class to see what views there are.
Re: Thigh kick Hey its out very own Khun Kao!!! So KK, could you clarify this please? On a Thai Roundhouse, i keep my foot extended. Your views? SOkKlab? Thaiboxer2?
That muscle that pops up! I sensed it too, and I can say for SURE! If you hit with that something hard you make yourself 2/3 less damage...or else I tried to kick a steel rod...when I kicked it with the shin it hurted(i kicked really easy), after that I kicked with the purpose to hit the target with the so called "pop-up muscle"...and guess....the power of teh kick was surelly 3 - times greater and it almost didn't hurt......but....yes there is a but.......when kicking with that part of the leg it was more complicated than in the normal way...it was more "tehnical".....that muscle is called in the game also whne you do the normal ab - drills---------> TESTED...on me, though.
Are you MAD!?!!? If you deaden that muscle, you are in for a world of pain? How do you know it was 3 times harder? Did the pole tell you "oww your kicks hurt more know!?". Oh but its so obvious. Thats what thai boxers are famous for. Because they kick with "that muscle near the shinbone!!". Sorry for the sarcasm. Kick, block with your shin. I would love it if i met you one day and had to feel one of your "muscle kicks" **shudder**
To be honest, I don't see or feel much difference. I'd say personal Preference. And I've heard opposing views too...
I use the toes pulled down method. As kickchick noted it seems to give them more of a "deadleg" and makes them limp.
When we kick to the thigh we normally flex the foot back to tighten the area around the shin. When we make contact the toes are pointing slightly upward, but the foot is quickly turned downward to facilitate the use of the entire tibia against the opponents thigh. This is a short and quick medial rotation of the shin accompanied by a turning on the base foot. When done properly it is very painful, even to veteran fighters (not necessarily from the first strike).
Look you almighty man! I am no thai boxer, I'm a TKD practicioner, and so I don't have the tehnique or experiece of a muay thai practicioner, so don't make all that fun around because it's not funny at all. I thought that the MTs low kicks are executed with the "hardened" shin, and now I realized that is not like that. To prove you possibly knowledge you've chosen a wrong way, the way of laughing to one whose muay thai knowledge is not very big. You could say the normal way and keep you reputation high, but with the way of laughing you just made yourself a jerk.....
Wow, I'm showing up late to this party! Sorry I didn't see this sooner, I'm finding I don't have as much time to check the MA boards as I used to. WHEN YOU ARE KICKING (ROUNDHOUSE KICK): Point your toes. Period. The style of the MT roundhouse kick is such that you are trying to FOLLOW THROUGH your target. If you flex your toes upwards towards your knee, you're going to eventually miss with your shin, connect with your foot, and really damage something from the impact, and I don't mean just your opponent. Can you imagine connecting with your toes on your opponents knee, elbow, or shin? By pointing the toes as you throw the roundhouse kick, you are tightening the muscles in the foot, ankle, and along the shin lending support to your bones and joints, preventing damage. If you connect badly (with your toes or instep) you are much less likely to break or strain something. WHEN YOU ARE BLOCKING: This is still the REAL debate, as far as I'm concerned. I *STILL* have not found a convincing argument either way. And to tell you the truth, I'm not even entirely sure which way I do it. It has been so long since I've paid mind to my foot position while blocking that I cannot remember how I do it. I suspect that I vary back-n-forth between the two methods, favoring toes up in most instances. I will attempt to pay mind to how I do it in tomorrow nights class while we spar. I will then come back and post what I've found. I'll also ask our coach, Master Bumrung "Danny" Prawatsrichai, if he knows which is preferable and why. He may have more insight. Khun Kao
I second Bigfoot because that's how i was taught to do it and how i know teach all of my students. Turn the base foot as much as possible to gain maximum impact with the foot away as Khun Kao said or you will take out your own foot, especially if the other guy shin blocks. With that in mind: Quote from Andy Murray: "If you place your hand on your shin bone, then pull up your foot, a muscle pops up alongside the bone! Would this soften or strengthen the kick?" Hi Andy, yes this does soften the kick but if you use the same principal when shin blocking it helps a little with the pain and every little helps as they say!!
I read the thread yestarday but wanted to wait till after class to get an idea of what most of my class members were doing. I find that I favor extending my foot out when it comes to kicking. It allows more of a surface for contacting the apponents leg, stomach, inner thigh in addition to using the shin. Gives me less of a chance of injuring the lower portion of the foot. I do raise my foot up when it comes to blocking a kick. Out of habit really. feels natural. Its how I start off my foot jab. Students I train with pretty much do the same thing. The main reason would be because thats how we were taught. I personally kick with my leg parallel to the apponents belt line which would usually point my foot downwards a little. Also parallel from time to time. I usually kick upwards on the apponents inner thigh. My foot is extended on both kicks. I do use each foot position every now and then, depends on what I am going to do whether its kicking or defending.
