FMA Terminology Archive

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by ap Oweyn, Feb 3, 2010.

  1. Citom

    Citom Witless Wonder

    That's either Penki-Penki or Pinke-Pinke... We can't really be sure since most Cebuano speakers quite often interchange the "e" and "i" vowel sounds. That's part of the "Visayan Accent" that regularly features in Philippine movies and tv shows, and is used to identify a character as coming from the Visayas region.
    As to meaning of "penki" (or pinke).. I just don't know yet.. I asked my Cebuano-speaking wife about the term and she said she never heard of it. My suggestion is to ask a Cebuano-speaking eskrimador what it means.
    In any case, "Penki-Penki" drills are quite similar to what is called "Sinawali" in Luzon (northern part of the Philippines, which includes the capital, Manila). In other words, double stick drills.
    Hope this helps.

    Cito
     
  2. embra

    embra Valued Member

    So if tapi-tapi, Penki-Penki/Pinkie-Pinkie and Siniwali all describe double stick drils, then that is difficult to classify.

    I note the interest and input here of a few folk. From what I can see, to get to a glossary template, will take quite a bit of time and effort.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2010
  3. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    It's the sound the sticks make when they are hit together, pinke, pinkie, pinkie, pinkie :)
     
  4. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    "Pingki-pingki" (that's how I've always spelled it, though I have no real basis for that)
    Style: "Cacoy" Doce Pares via the Patalinghug family
    Timeframe: I trained with them from 89 to about 96 full time; don't know if they still use this term

    In our school, "pingki pingki" was a single-stick contra y contra drill. So the first three moves in the sequence were in response to the last three moves in the sequence. (This is common sense to anyone familiar with contra y contra drills. But I figured I'd say that for the benefit of those who aren't.)

    Rather than try and describe the movements, I'll try and commit it to video (if only performed alone) sometime soon.


    Stuart
     
  5. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    From the sounds of it, that sounds like a drill I know as Tres Tres (three three) form Doce Pares which can be done single V single, double V double and single V double)
     
  6. embra

    embra Valued Member

    Here is Danny Gubba's doce Pares tres-tres which is not a million miles away from Pat's Rapid Arnis Tres-tres.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r6SiKZo1ic"]YouTube- Guba Doce Pares Double Stick Tres-Tres & Kuatro-Kuatro[/ame]

    Not to sure about the Kuatro-Kuatro (4-4) on the title, mind you.

    Is Tres-tres common accross all Doce Pares interpretations?
     
  7. Mano Mano

    Mano Mano Dirty Boxer

    From what I’ve been taught there are long range & medio versions of tres-tres & kuatro-kuatro.
    The clip is showing the long range versions practiced in Gube Doce Pares.
     
  8. LabanB

    LabanB Valued Member

    Kuatro-Kuatro

    Hi Embra, that drill has gone through a few name changes since Danny first showed me it! Kuatro-kuatro out of Tres Tres, Tres Tres B, not sure what Danny is calling at the mo' though!

    If you watch the drill you'll see that the first strike then blocks a returning strike, then the drill continues as Tres Tres as normal.

    Oh, Alec, there is a close range version too! We were training it last week!

    Bill
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2010
  9. embra

    embra Valued Member

    If we look and Danny and the other dude, they are exceuting a lot of quite involved footwork; cat stance, back steps, forward steps, lead step change and maybe others; all to get the positioning setup correctly, in this case for long (largo?) range tres-tres and kuatro-kuatro - all beyond the standard 'male-female' triangles - or am I missing something? (quite possible.)

    Can someone comment on the footwork (and terminology if appropriate - there may not be any) for Doce Pares tres-tres and any other FMA?
     
  10. embra

    embra Valued Member

    This thread is begining to show some promise, in terms of bringing some kind of structure to FMA terminology. However due to the nature of the beast - diverse styles, interpretations, borrowing from each other and from external styles, immigrant interpretions e.g. Serrada Cabales in the US; all across thousands of islands, with perople speaking different languages and dialetcs; itis likely to be some time (if ever) we get to the level of formatted, organised presentation of Aikido on this thread :-

    http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59429

    However, one basic question (which may spawn a few more) is given the Geography (roughly Luzon in the north, Visaya islands in the middle, Mindano and islands in the south - and many others) of the Phillipines, where are the major languages Tugalog (spelling?), Cebuano, others spoken - and how does this impact on the terminology of FMA?
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2010
  11. Simon

    Simon Moved on. Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Hi embra.
    I train with Danny and he uses term 'floating leg' in this drill.
    After Danny hits the other guys leg, he has to block the next strike. Danny moves his leg back to avoid what would be a hit to the leg. This is what he calls floating leg. In right leg lead (for sake of arguement) the leg can also be placed behind the left when defending, as soon as the leg touches the floor it is moved forward again in readiness for Danny's next hit.

    Fantastic drill tres tres, especially going into quattro quattro dos into seis seis, into hubud and so on.
     
  12. embra

    embra Valued Member

    Thanks for that Simon.

    Another question relates to the downwards front parry with the inside of the wrist exposed (about 1.14 into the vid) - rather than the 'conventional' fist side. Is this type of parrying unique to tres-tres/kuatro-kuatro drills?
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2010
  13. Simon

    Simon Moved on. Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    embre, this parry is better explained with a blade rather than the stick. The parry would be done with the side of the blade rather than the back of the blade or cutting edge.
     
  14. embra

    embra Valued Member

    The first time I tried tres-tres it was with the long straight sword (terminology?) - not unlike a European saber.

    My understanding (in general) is that most (if not all) stick drills can also be considered as sword drills - so one should only disarm at the punyo (butt) end, behind the blade guard.

    Maybe someone can provide a weapons terminology guide beyond the wikipedia level (my level)?
     
  15. Simon

    Simon Moved on. Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Danny tells us that Eskrima is not a stick art, but a bladed system as you say.
    I would agree that most disarms would be at the punyo end but not all would be behind the blade guard, for example grabing the stick in front of the hand that is holding it. Hence the requirement for holding in reverse grip.

    So while on the subject of grips:-

    Sacsac - Heaven or regular grip. Blade pointing up to heaven.
    Dungab - Earth or reverse grip. Blade pointing down to earth.
     
  16. Citom

    Citom Witless Wonder

    I believe it will impact greatly. We will never get the uniformity of terminology that is seen in Japanese Martial arts such as Aikido. It is worth noting that even within Aikido, the various organisations also have different terminologies.. for example, the technique that is known as "ikkyo" in the Aikikai and related federations is called "ikkajo" in Yoshinkan and "oshi taoshi" in Shodokan (Tomiki). But at least they are all using Nihongo!

    A lot of FMA styles have Spanish based or Spanish influenced terminologies.. however the same Spanish term may be used differently by different styles.
    As to geographical distribution, Tagalog, Ilokano, Pangasinense, Pampangueno, and Bikolano are the first languages of the inhabitants of Luzon.. Cebuano, Negrense, Ilonggo and Waray native speakers are in the Visayas, whilst Cebuano and tribal languages such as Maranaw, Tausug, Bagobo et al are used in Mindanao.
    The official language is called Filipino but this is acknowledged to be Tagalog-based. English is also an official language as mandated in the 1987 Constitution.

    I was raised bilingually, we spoke both Tagalog and English at home in the Philippines. In addition, my father speaks Pangasinense, so that makes him trilingual.
     
  17. embra

    embra Valued Member

    So would Tagalog be used in the Phillipines as a kind of universal language of communication - like Hindi in India or Mandarin in China?
     
  18. Citom

    Citom Witless Wonder

    Yes, up to a point. The Tagalog-based Filipino language is used as medium of instruction in most primary schools. English is also used as a medium of instruction (especially in the private schools)
    There is however, a movement (especially in Cebu) to have only the native dialect (eg, Cebuano) and English as a medium of instruction in schools, claiming that the imposition of Tagalog is causing the death of the other dialects. This is a backlash against what is called "Manila Colonialism".
    But yes, most mass media (movies, TV, radio, newspapers, magazines) in the Philippines is either in Tagalog or English.
     
  19. Citom

    Citom Witless Wonder

    Saksak (Tagalog) and Dunggab (Cebuano) both mean "to stab". cf: http://www.bohol.ph/diksyunaryo.php?sw=dunggab&lang=Cebuano

    The reverse grip is known as "pakal" or "ice pick grip". This is because the blade is held the way one holds an ice pick, (ie, point downwards).
     
  20. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    In our Doce Pares school, we used the terms "langhit" and "lupa" for Heaven and Earth (the standard and inverted grip on the knife, respectively). In a standard grip, the blade points upward (toward Heaven). In the inverted or ice pick grip, it points downward (toward Earth).

    Couldn't tell you 1) whether I'm spelling those correctly or 2) where the terms originate.


    Stuart
     

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