Feelings on Qualifications

Here's the low down, recently in my area a new TKD school has been opened and it's being run by a 2nd Dan blackbelt. Here's the thing, I personally don't think I'd be comfortable with training with someone of such a low rank who wasn't being directly monitered by someone of a master status or above. The exception to this would be someone with roughly the same amount of years(al 12 or up imo) who has at least one or more blackbelts but nothing in the master range because of cross training. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against being taught by low blackbelts or anyone for that matter, even lower belts than myself. It's all about the learning right? My only concern with things like this is that maybe I'd be getting flawed technique and information from a "spring chicken" for lack of a better term. And no, I'm not training at this school so I'm not voicing concern here over my school, just merely stating my thoughts and feelings on the subject and hoping to find the general opinion on such things.

 

The things you say are really contradictory to me. In Finland, you will get 2nd dan black belt in TKD usually after 15-20 years of training. So I consider 2nd dan blackbelts semi-gods . In our club we have instructors with 3 and 4 gup belts teaching me (1 gup) and I have no problem with that.

I don't think you should judge anyone before meeting them in person. What if that guy has been doing karate or some other martial art for another 10 years before TKD? He might be pretty damn good for what you know.

Technique is not so important, you can always fine-tune it (and you will be doing that). The most important thing is that your instructor is motivating. Give the guy a chance, and if you are having a good time you have found a good instructor. As simple as that.

- Roy

 

But what about schools with no belts?

|Cain|

 

I'm a 1st Dan and a full instructor, you wouldn't feel comfortable with me teaching you? (Thats about 12 years worth by the way).

Col

 

Wow, you guys have got some good TKD. A lot of the time second Dans only have about 4 years or so.

 

Roy, if you had read my post closely you would have noticed the part where I clearly typed. " The only exception to this would be someone with roughly the same amount of years(al 12 or up imo) who has at least one or more blackbelts but nothing in the master range because of cross training." Also, I happen to know that he for sure DOES NOT have any other training than TKD. Because he actually trained under my current master until something happened and he left for one reason or another.

Another thing, I'm going to have to disagree with your thoughts on: "The most important thing is that your instructor is motivating". Who cares if your motivated if you can't do a technique properly because of bad information. If all that mattered was motivation we would have mood tapes and teach ourselves martial arts! Then we could just bypass all the expenses of training at a school and save all that time from travelling to and from the school.

Cain, its like I said about the years. Even if the guy wears a white belt (or no belt) I'd train with him if he'd been doing ma for 20 years. I only mention belts because in my area it generally takes a MINIMUM of 12 years to get your 4th Dan. It takes at least 3 years to get a Blackbelt, then at least 2 for 2nd Dan, then at least 3 for 3rd Dan, then at least 4 years for 4th Dan. From there it goes up incrementally with the rank your going for as demonstrated above.

 

12 years is fine freeform. Again, read the post. It's all about the experience. But I would like the instructor to hold at least one blackbelt as well as those years of experience if he was crosstraining. If he had been doing the same ma and had no belt I wouldn't mind because I'd know he knows all of the fundamental info from that ma because of those 12 years of training. As explained in the last post the rank thing was basically governed by how they rank around these parts. I actually do most of my training under 2nd and 3rd Dan blackbelts. I'm cool with that because the Master instructor keeps a pretty tight reign on things. Basically I'm fine with being taught by anyone, I just like to have some sort of assurance either in experience by that person(years training) or in experience from the person who has been training them directly. In other words, if the person teaching me didn't have a lot of experience I would like to know the source of his knowldge so I could be sure he actually knows what he's doing. Weak links in training is how Mcdojos came into existence. If I ever decide to open my own school someday I'd like to know that I'm not the one being referred to as "that Mcdojo instructor". That's all, plain and simple. No disrespect intended toward anyones teaching qualifications, just my preference/opinion. :Angel:

 

I said the most important thing, not everything. An instructor might be damn good even if he/she didn't remember how some dan grade poomse is done, but he/she can keep you interested of the art. If the guy has been training TKD and other martial arts for 50 years or whatever, but is a complete a$$ or just extremely boring personality, you won't keep going to the classes for long.

When typing that I assumed that we are talking about a 2nd dan black belt TKDka, so he/she probably knows how to do all the techniques you will need to know, or you have some seriously screwed up system with belt ranks. (I am beginning to fear this is the case, especially after reading your last paragraph. It's hard for me to put my finger on this problem if our belt ranks are not comparable on any level)

The bottom line: I would definitely let myself be trained by a 2nd dan black belt. But in order to do that the person in question must be somehow motivating and able to keep me coming back looking for new things to learn. If I want to be bored or sleep I can do that at home.

- Roy

 

For me, I would have to base it on the individual instructor. The actual rank is not as important to me as his or her ability. Hopefully, the instructor falls under some sort of umbrella organization... which will certify him or her as well as provide more senior members to help the instructor themselves train and to help evaluate students.

For those of us in isolated rural areas, 2nd dan may be fairly senior and we have had some instructors open their own schools at 2nd dan... my instructor for example. He ran his school under the supervision of a 3rd dan (local) and under a Master located a bit downstate. In my humble opinion, he has done very well... and had years of training before reaching 2nd dan. ( He had collected quite a few red and brown belts previously)

If I were to go to a school that had a senior instructor that was 2nd dan, I would be interested in their background and would try out some classes. If the level felt good and the instructor was a good teacher, the rank really wouldn't matter to me (and we know the discrepancies between standards and wait times for black belts within TKD, let alone outside of TKD).

For me personally, I have no desire to open a school. For myself, if I did, I wouldn't consider doing it until at least 4th dan... but that's based on my self evaluation of experience in both the art and in instructing it.

 

My sensei started his school at 2nd dan. I also live in a rural area and yeah it is pretty high. The fact that he has 22 years experience and other blackbelts say he should be at least 4th dan by now puts my fears to rest, though.

Defenitely, thomas, it really depends on who's teaching. My sensei was under the supervision of a higher ranking sensei (can't remember the rank) who came to our school to teach self defense. Seriously, he wasn't as... competant in teaching us effective defenses.

 

i think a 2nd dan is ok to train at i would more prefer a 3rd dan or higher. but who knows this 2nd dan can be really good and kick ass so its not good to judge by size when you dont know the full effect. my master is a 6th dan in tkd, 4th dan in hkd, and 1st dan in judo and graduated from the yong in university in korea. say if you wanted to join this dojo just saying before judging it i would go and watch a few classes and watch very carefully and see wut you like thats wut i would do.. i dont know thats just me.

 

Really all this just goes to show that what belt a person wears doesn't matter - it's their ability and experience that counts. Well, whaddayaknow!

 

I used to be like that. I used to feel uncomfortable not having a 'master' instructor running a school.

Then I realised that I was wrong. Very wrong.

The problem nowadays is that everyone is obsessed with rank, instead of ability. Go to a class and learn.

-T

 

-There have been some good points made. The higher dan grade does not guarantee a better instructor. Nor does time in training; there is a big difference between a person who learned for one year and continued to practice(but just going through the motions and not really growing) for an additional 19 years and someone who learned, trained hard an never let themselves get stagnant for 20 years. Both may claim two decades of training, but the end result of the tim spent is a world of differece. In fact, I think I'd rather train with someone who was a 2nd dan who had trained for six years and used that time to really push themselves to learn and grow that some 4th or 5th dan (or above) that got promoted just because they kept showing up.
- I think that a main concern of the original post was that there are too many underqualified instructors out there, My observation is that far too many of them break away more for ego than anything else (obviously this is not always the case, there are many notable exceptions and a lot of legitimate reasons occur, too). IMO, this is one of the reasons of sub-standard schools and why many schools and organizations are not teaching their students at the level they should be and that the students really deserve.
-I think that technical proficiency is a must:you have to know the material you re teaching on all levels. But even more important is the ability to motivate and communicate with a student to bring out the best in her/him. If you are the greatest technician or fighter with all the best knowledge yourself, but are not effective at getting this across to others and bringing out the best in them, then all your skills only benefit you and will not be passed on. To me, that is a great waste. Also, remember people don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care. Study on this.

 

schools are different. and in different schools there are different conditions that have to be fullfilled to get a black belt or 2nd Dan for that matter. i don't think that people should be judged just like that. there is a 2nd Dan TKD instructor who has been in TKD for the past 20-25 years. he competed for a long time. he won so many titles. he went to different competitions, state, world. he is simply not interested in getting all the Dan ranks (unlike other people who live for the ranking to be able to show off in front of their friends). by now he could have been 4th Dan. he is more than skilled for the job. he is even better than some 3rd Dans or 4th Dans. so if i had to choose between him 2nd Dan and another 3rd Dan/4th Dan who is not doing his job right, i would always choose the guy with the 2nd Dan. so please let's not discredit people, because they might just not deserve it.

i myself am not impressed if someone tells me that s/he has got a high Dan rank. their skill is the only thing that can impress me, no matter the rank.