Erle and controversy

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by nzric, Sep 22, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Syd

    Syd 1/2 Dan in Origami

    Thats fine, I don't either. I'm just not so quick to tear people down who I have not met or seen in person. For the record who do you deem to be genuinely skilled that you have decided to learn from?
  2. xingyiboxer

    xingyiboxer New Member

    Who is genuinely skilled? Honestly, I've hardly found anybody. And the people that I've found who are good aren't well known.

    Like Vince Black in Xingyi, for example. One of the best examples in Taiji is Erle's Taiji teacher in England. There are some good Gao style students of Ho Ho Choy.

    So honestly, it seems a waste of time to study from most of the teachers out there.

    Being critical isn't tearing somebody down. Look at good taiji teachers, then look at Erle. Look at good Gao style teachers, then look at Erle. I'm not tearing him down, just stating the obvious.
  3. Syd

    Syd 1/2 Dan in Origami

    I agree that there are few out there worth the time. But when there is so much bad out there, how do you determine what is good? Best of a bad lot? Who is the benchmark for good IMA? Is this subjective or do you know something others don't? I think allot of these determinations are largely subjective.

    In any case let me know if you ever talk to Whitrod.
  4. Sandus

    Sandus Moved Himself On

    Ali has Parkinson's Disease which may or may not have been caused by brain trauma. There are many boxers who've taken worse beatings in their lifetimes and sustained no permanent effects or at least less than what Ali has. Not to mention Ali didn't get knocked out that often, he just took an awful lot of punches.
  5. xingyiboxer

    xingyiboxer New Member

    Not Whitrod

    Well, so much for that theory. Paul Whitrod says that Erle didn't study with him or his teacher.


    So who knows.
  6. Syd

    Syd 1/2 Dan in Origami

    Well there you go. It always helps to get something from the horses mouth.
  7. noblenicky

    noblenicky New Member

    Regardless of his reputation, I believe everyone has something to teach everybody, whether it is about taiji or some aspects in life. If he has not disadvantaged you in any way, I dont think it is fair for someone to disadvantage him.

    (e.g. I may have something to teach my teacher about computers, but he definitely has a lot to teach me in taiji. Regardless of what the nature of the exchange is, respect should always be present).
  8. xingyiboxer

    xingyiboxer New Member

    ??? If somebody is teaching (X) instead of (Y) then you will still respect them?

    From the research I've done, Erle seems to have methods that NOBODY else has, and is claiming some things that nobody else does.

    It is safe to assume that he made them up, barring further evidence.

    I'm sorry, but there are so many stupid techniques out there, such as downward blocks for kicks in karate, which put the weakest bone in your arm against people's shins. That leaves your arm vulnerable to breaking, as I have learned the hard way.

    So I should just respect the people telling me to do something stupid? No, I should not.

    And I'm not saying that Erle is a bad fighter, or his techniques are all crap. Rather, that he doesn't seem to be the best example of the students of at least 2 of his teachers, and it seems he teaches his dim mak from theory, not experience.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2004
  9. ShhDragon

    ShhDragon New Member

    you mentioned 'Miller' Which Miller?
    Also: the poor audio qulaity/pet dog stuff not germaine to your point
    and honestly
    If someone can't get $60 worth of lessons out of anyone's video
    it surely is the viewer's failing.

  10. ShhDragon

    ShhDragon New Member

    A few notes....

    Firstly his name is spelled Erle

    Secondly, a different model of proof exists than theat we are so familiar with. The one we refer to as scientific and which we know to be Western. Ken Wilber has suggested another way. Put simply it involves three ways in which we gleen information. They are the: "eye of flesh " "eye of mind" & "eye of contemplation." Put simply: the eye of flesh is the scientific mind the others are more involved than I will get in this post. Google Wilber's work if you like.

    I will say, we have all had the feeling of someone looking at as when we are not looking at them already. We know this. We trust this. Interestingly, we don't think of it as freaky. It is a known. And yet, it fully falls out of the purview of the eye of flesh. We live in a world in which we have already accepted the other eyes. Already.

    just a thought

  11. soggycat

    soggycat Valued Member

    I have over the years met several of Erle's students who regard him his a Western IMA Expert. Some of these students have now become instructors.
    In fact his expert status has recently been hailed by Wales.

    In particular I noticed his Bagua students walk the circle in a rather peculiar and tititllating way. At the end of every 2 steps there's a sharp and distinct hip shake/ quiver . Now I must admit I have had a chance to witness many many styles of Bagua ( Gao, Fu, Yin Yang , Cheng Ting Hua) but I have never seen a style with a jiggle in the mud stepping walk.

    Can someone please explain ?

    I'm particulary concerned about accurate transmission of knowledge. I'm told Erle speak no chinese and spent only a short while in Wudang Shan , communicating through someone who's command of English was not near that of his native Chinese.Is it possible something was lost in translation?

    If Erle disciples insist this walking style is the real thing, mebbe they shoud call their style Bagua Disco .......floor your enemy with the power to mesmerize, titillate and instigate uncontrollabe laughter
  12. Syd

    Syd 1/2 Dan in Origami

    You've been like a broken down record on this for over a year, get a life. You won't reveal your own teachers or system and yet you attack Erle; very brave of you. You were asked a year ago to mention the names of these so-called students of Erle's and yet you provide nothing. You shoot down those who are in the open and do it from behind a rock.

    Your a troll and nothing more. ;)
  13. gt3

    gt3 Member

    Erle clearly isn't a fraud, yet clearly isn't perfect. Is your teacher? Let's leave it alone already. He has his own opinions but atleast hes not claiming to have invented his own style and not give credit to anyone :bang:
  14. daftyman

    daftyman A 4oz can of whoop-ass!

    Nobody's perfect. 'cept me of course! :p

    Why people feel the need to put others down, is beyond me. Most of the time it is only done to try to make themselves look better. To hide their own ignorance/weaknesses. A 'trollish' act that only serves to enrage and annoy.

    We should listen to what people say, whoever they are. They may just say something that strikes a spark in your noggin that leads to a leap in your understanding.

    Wandering about with your fingers in your ears shouting about how crap everyone else is, is both foolish and pointless. It does nobody and favours.

  15. nzric

    nzric on lookout for bad guys

    soggycat... if you spent some time on Erle's website you'll find there's a lot of information on exactly why the bagua circle walking has that hip shake. I've spoken to Erle about this and there are real justifications as to why the step is performed in this way.

    However, by the tone of your post it's clear you're not interested in learning about the step at all - you're just trolling. If you're truly interested in learning, ask an honest question not a thinly disguised attack.
  16. ShhDragon

    ShhDragon New Member

    somethign is ALWAYS " lost in translation?"
    was Erle losing more than usual, more than average? I doubt it but who knows.
  17. gt3

    gt3 Member

    I gaurentee when these trolls' instructors say or do things that are questionable that they blindly go along with it. People just like to nitpick of every little thing someone ELSE is doing. If you wanna nitpick do it with your own instructor. The human mind will ALWAYS find something it doesnt like if its searching. Then what will you do once you've found something your own instructor does that you dont like?

    But really we get it already, if its not YOUR style or YOUR teacher then it must be wrong. Are you really THAT insecure?
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2004
  18. hwardo

    hwardo Drunken Monkey

    Good god, this thread lives?!
  19. nzric

    nzric on lookout for bad guys

    Just. It's hanging by a thread. I don't like to use the padlock too freely (especially in threads where I clearly have my own pov), but if this round turns into another flaming match I'll have no choice.
  20. hwardo

    hwardo Drunken Monkey

    You know, I just spent about an hour watching the free download videos on Erle's taiji website, and I have to say, what is the big freakin' deal? The guy is clearly competent to teach, he is personable, and he seems to have a lot of insight into IMA theory in general. What's all the 8 pages and a year of fuss about? Part of martial arts is the evolution of styles. Is there some degeneration as lineages are transfered and grasped by large audiences? Of course. But I dare anyone here to find a "pure" martial art, untouched and unchanged through thousands of years. The fact is, this guy is successful, and it is clear that he isn't trying to sell some 2 day tuscahoma warrior blackbelt course. He's teaching taiji. If anyone thinks he isn't, watch his videos and listen-- you'll probably learn something you didn't know. I did.
    I think that people tend to be leary of success-- it seems like actually making money doing martial arts somehow correlates with mcdojo (or I guess, mckwoon in this case). Then there is the whole stigma of legitimacy-- some folks believing that the only legitimate teachers have pretty scrolls with asian characters on them. You know what? I've learned some valuable lessons in IMA from 20 year old Americans. They knew stuff I didn't.

    Oops, I ranted. Close the thread, Nzric, this won't go anywhere good. : )
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page