This thread is for any discussions, ideas or comments about empty force. As opinions about this subject have been scattered around quite a few threads, it will be easier for everyone to follow to keep it all in the one place. Any comments welcome. I wish I didn't need to say it, but: one person one vote please. Boosting your ratings to give validity to your pov is a bit cheap .. you're only cheating yourself.
This is a re-post: Azrael & nzric, You can exhale now. My teacher chided me and me not to argue with you guys anymore, because it is draining too much of my personal Chi and nullifies to my Qigong cultivation. Too much struggle and effort. I need to be more " selfish" and not try to share my treasure especially to those who are unable to recognise it's value. Perhaps in due course. If you receive some sort of enlightenment sometime in the future about the Dao and Empty Force and do wish to learn more about it from my teacher, you can email me or contact him . Other than that I won't be checking the forums anymore. He said you guys are not the first or last to mock him even some of his oldest Dao-less IMA friends do that. And you are right, he said I shouldn't bother having to defend him. Even he won't defend himself against mockery or any non lethal attacks. I guess it is natural to dismiss something when you don't have that something. The irony is we aim to acquire the " nothingness of the Dao" . Final note, do check up on who Yu Shwen Der ( spelling ?) is, you might be astonished to know how Master Bing is " connected" to him. Peace to you all brothers. P.S. The polls options are biased, not all are represented , hopefully that wasn't intentional. ie. the option that says " I don't know much about Empty Force, but I am keeping an open mind and want to learn more about it" Also, it doesn't even explain what Empty Force is first .....so the reader is asked to voted on something he has little knowledge of. ....much like many of the Gallop polls that predict election results...we all know what happened to Kim Beazely .
Well, for the record, I do believe that empty power is possible, but only to a certain degree. I do not believe that such a thing can be done from even a medium distance, it would have to be done very close. Within at least reaching ditance by my reckoning. Also, the person that was to be recieving empty power would either have to be willing, or very weak in either mind and/or body for it to have any kind of effect, and even then I doubt it would be anything substantial. Only if the person was actually touching the person could they inflict damage or worse, and that to me is not empty power at all. I do not believe it to be the pinnacle of martial abilities, merely the side effect & possibility of very advanced dedicated training & internal reflection. I also believe that if one were to reach such a stage, they would have no need for such a thing, and would actually disregard this ability, as they would percieve this ability as a distraction (desire) in their quest for enlightenment. Why would a person focus on such a trivial thing when they have trained so hard to obtain such an advanced spiritual state? Just my humble opinion.
I'll believe anything but I won't believe that. I have Rich Mooney's book and I have an opinion. Rgds, David
Effectively its telekinesis Darren, and has about as much evidence to prove it as telekinesis does. Striking people at a distance without touching them, that sort of thing.
"My teacher chided me and me not to argue with you guys anymore, because it is draining too much of my personal Chi and nullifies to my Qigong cultivation....If you receive some sort of enlightenment sometime in the future ....He said you guys are not the first or last to mock him even some of his oldest Dao-less IMA friends do that." I think that qualifies for the most pretentious post ever on a MA forum.
If, by empty force, you mean being able to knock someone over, or inflict force on them in any way without touching them, then no. Matter of fact, a well know qigong and martial arts master has offered 10,000 dollars to anyone who can effect him with empty force. He believes that proponents of it make qigong look like a sham, and I tend to agree with him.
I think that qualifies for the most pretentious post ever on a MA forum. Yeah, I've been spitting my herbal tea across the room, reading these sorts of posts all week...
even chi strikes like fajing, the one inch punch and spectacular aikido throws require contact. if empty force exists (why not THE FORCE jedi style?) i don't think it's worth wasting time on. I have a good one inch punch but I wouldn't consider myself a master of anything. I just learned to visualize and strike that's all. It's not like learning empty force makes you invincible. There's always a way to dupe a dupe. I'm a conventinal combatant, I preffer upclose and personal. I wonder how you can empty force any one effectively when they're behind you?
A guy on the fourth floor of a building, in an isolated room, can knock over his student in another isolated room on the first floor, at a randomly chosen time, a statistically significant amount. Not a combat-effective amount, but significant. So it does exist, but it's not useful.
A job for James Randi I think-Although I do not personally like Randi he is offering a lot of money for people to perform these acts and prove that they work. To date still has not paid out his bounty. A few of us will have seen performances of so called masters demonstrating empty force and I think that it is a combination of many things but you often find that the person receiving the force is a student of the master and has had some (hypnotic) contact with the master on the day of the event. These masters are usually reluctant to let anyone in on the secret often claiming that the person from the audience or off the street is not mentally prepared for the act. Which means that the master does not want a punch in the head! One of my collegues was picked from the audience some years ago in Newcastle,England at a martial arts festival and swears that he did not see the punch coming towards him but felt the blow on his chest. The person punching did make eye contact with my collegue before the act took place and it happened so fast that none of us really saw what happened. As stated this is not a lot of use in combat if you have to prepare your opponent first. Mark.
Did you read the post, though? Regardless of any hypnotic conditioning, they had absolutely no contact with each other during the test. But, yes, still not combat effective since it seems to work best between master and pupil. For a combat effective version, I'd go with Systema's ways, taking advantage of unconscious cues. They explicitly state that it has nothing to do with empty force or energetics--usually making somebody respond to a blow that didn't actually connect--but something along the same lines.
Even more amazing than Empty Force ? http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/11797_phenomenon.html 01/14/2004 19:02 Moscow's medical workers discovered a magnificent gift of a sixteen-year-old girl Natalya Demkina from Saransk. The girl possesses "dual vision". She is capable of discerning a person's internal organs without using X-ray or ultrasound. Natasha has already disproved several medical diagnoses and has not made any mistakes. A series of medical experiments conducted in one of the clinics provide substantial and undeniable proofs of the girls' unique abilities. "Growing up, my daughter was just an ordinary child," states Natasha's mother Tatyana Vladimirovna. "Perhaps, she just a bit more mature than other kids her age. Natasha started to talk when she was only 6 months old. At 1, she could already recite Pushkin and Nekrasov by heart. By 3, Natasha mastered the alphabet and learned to operate a snowmobile," continues her mother. "Since early childhood, Natasha has been resistant to cold temperatures. She practically walked around naked till winter. She once walked barefoot in the snow after sauna [Rus. banya] Overall, she was just a normal kid. Never was she able to see through humans!" The Demkins family remains puzzled as to the origin of their daughter"s gift. Perhaps, Natasha"s latest surgery has triggered such "vision improvement". Natasha"s appendix has been removed. However, by the time she was scheduled to be sent home from the hospital, she could hardly move. Ultrasound revealed that doctors forgot to remove sanitary cotton tampons from the girl"s intestines. Natasha was once again hospitalized and operated for the second time. In a month after that incident, the teenager was able to surprise her mother with her unique quality. "I see a crimped tube similar to our vacuum cleaner inside of you. I also see two beans and a tomato that resembles a bulls' heart," states the girl. Back then, she was not aware of medical terminology and could not provide a proper name for a heart, a liver, a kidney, or intestines. She simply compared what she saw to fruits and vegetables. Medical workers of children's hospital N1 decided to conduct several experiments in order to gain some insight into the girl"s gift. Natasha was shown a woman with a whole bunch of illnesses. The girl managed to list every single one of them. Further ultrasound examination simply proved her final diagnosis. Natasha is capable of distinguishing even the tiniest pathology on a molecular level in the deepest corners of a human body, which are usually left undetected> Latest News • Japanese archaeologists discovered a city of XII century • 100 millions for Faberge • Biggest Baby Ever Born Weighed 12 Kilograms • A double-hearted man • Russia's Tallest Man to be Frozen? by regular ultrasound. "It's like having double vision. I can switch from one to the other in no time if I need to know a person's health problem," says the teenager. "I see an entire human organism. It is difficult to explain how I determine specific illnesses. There are certain impulses that I feel from the damaged organs. The secondary vision works only in daytime and is asleep at night." Natasha began her studies at a multi-disciplined academy at the Moscow's State University of Ogarev in order to learn more about organism's phenomenal qualities. There she specializes in medicine. "Being able to use medical terminology, I will be able to state the final diagnosis more accurately. I have to know and understand what I see. This will definitely ease my work with people who come for consultations," states Natasha. In the meantime, the amount of people willing to attend the girls' consultations increases day after day. News about her wonderful gift has quickly spread around their district. Today, the Demkins family accepts about twenty phone calls a day with cries for help. "We even have people standing in line right before our door," says Natasha. "I cannot turn them down. I do not accept any monetary rewards either. That is why I am often exhausted by the end of the day. Some people do not even thank me." Doctors themselves often pay visits to the girl. Several times Natasha disproved their final diagnoses. "There was once a lady who had been diagnosed with cancer. I looked at her and did not notice anything like it, just a small cyst. The woman however stated that she had just been diagnosed with cancer." Secondary examination however revealed that Natasha had been right. "I would like to get into Moscow"s medical academy of Sechenov. However, I do not think that I will be able to pay for my studies- 70,000 rubles annually. Not even my gift can help me in these matters," says Natasha. Natasha is right. Despite a number of experiments and thorough medical examinations, the girl's gift still needs to be backed up by scientific evidences and facts. Today, the girl hopes that scientists will notice her and conduct all the necessary experiments. "I have nothing to hide," says Natasha. "Let them experiment with me. Perhaps, they will be able to explain the nature of my secondary vision. Then I guess I will have a chance to study at the most prestigious medical school." Source: PV-Gazeta
Yes, the Systema work is all along psychological lines. Flinch response, body language, that kind of thing. On one level it's stuff we do all the time out walking through a shopping mall - that adjusting of position or giving off signals to people walking towards us. Kind of fun to play around with it sometimes, you can "send" people one way or another. At that level it's more use in "pre-combat" than against a homicidal maniac, but it is interesting work. One guy was asking after class, he was very sceptical that people could be "manipulated". While I was talking to him I glanced over his shoulder. He turned his head to look, then turned back and said "yes, but does it really work?"... Re. the X-ray girl - she was on morning TV here the other week and was 100% succesful with the people in the studio. She then looked at the resident doc and said a couple of things, one about an "enlarged liver". He had a complete scan. His liver was normal size but there were some shadows on the scan and he is undergoing further tests. The doc looked quite worried. BTW I was at some of those events in Newcastle too. The "empty force" work the guy did on his own students was quite spectacular. The work done after on people who came up to quesiton him was less so.......
I'd call this Japanese experiment, a matter of magic. It reminds me of a demo that Alistair Crowley did to impress a friend. They were walking along a road and AC said "watch that guy in front of us". Then AC mimiced the guy's walk. Very soon the guy's legs buckled and he fell down "for no reason". I call that magic, not projecting chi. Maybe I need to rethink my definitions. AC's demo is more martially useful than anything I've seen or read about empty force methods and even then, it's useless. Empty force works best on empty force students. AC did his on an anonymous victim who wasn't aware of his victimisation before, during or after. Rgds, David
