Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by Stick, Apr 4, 2004.
Apparently, but not doing so well
When did I ever say I was somewhere trying to make friends? I'm an arrogant A-hole with the skills to back up and teach everything I say I can do. If you like it OK, if not, I could really give two sh'ts.
The difference between wisdom and intelligence
Wisdom= learning from your own mistakes
Intellingence= learning from other's mistakes
I happen to fall into the intelligent category.
does that mean you don't make mistakes or that you don't learn from them hahahahahahaaaa
thanks I needed that
This is my assessment as somebody who has read a lot about the history of kenpo in America (but I am not an EPAK student).
There is basically ONE "Ed Parkers American Kenpo". But there are almost as many variations on it as there are schools that teach it. That seems to sortof be what Ed Parker wanted, to some extent - that Kenpo evolve and tailor to each individual within the outlines of the principles and concepts of the system.
Now that Mr. Parker is gone, there are a number of people who have published and taught styles they call their own, that they claim are different enough to have a distinct name, yet that derive from EPAK to one extent or another. There may be dozens or more of those, some are blatantly crap, and some are real advancements of Kenpo.
There are also many styles/schools/variations that claim to be authentic the way Ed Parker taught it. These fall into 3 groups : those that ARE and KNOW IT; those that ARE NOT and KNOW THEY ARE FAKES; and those that ARE NOT and DONT KNOW IT. There are many who say, these "true blue EP" schools are going against what he wanted, by "traditionalizing" AK. But that is a philosophical debate to be resolved by the EPAK community itself, IMHO...
then you've got the Tracy Kenpo schools... they split from Parker very early on, the style is very similar... there are millions of threads on that topic littering the internet...
I'm sure there are some AK people here who can elaborate on and/or correct what I have written...
When you say Parker wanted people to adapt Kempo to their individualities are you meaning something different to the principles of Shu Ha Ri. In Shorinji Kempo we acknowledge that once the principles are learned they need to be adapted to the individual, this is the Ha stage of learning. What I wonder about is why so many feel they need to create their own style, it is almost unheard of in Shorinji Kempo for someone to separate from WSKO and found their own style.
I don't knwo about Shu Ha Ri but that sounds like what I was describing.
This is not, IMHO, the reason for the proliferation of "other" kenpos. However, this does casue a lot of "no, you should be punching him like this at this point" discussions... whihc can lead ot bruised egos, which can lead to feuding...
Well Mr. Lear,
A couple of things happened. The big one was that when I got in town I found out that my company wasn't springing for a car. So that was a let down. The second thing was that the meetings lasted longer than I expected they would every day I was there so that didn't allow me to make plans earlier in the day. Also the "business center" at the hotel closed at 4pm so my internet acess was limited since all my meetings ended after 5:30pm. I took it all as a sign.
Lastly, you and I haven't been in contact for a really long time (for whatever reason) so when I got the message from Whip about you picking me up I wasn't really comfortable with that so I figured I'd just catch up with them down the road.
Thanks for asking anyway, Jason
He didn't do it to make money, he actually introduced it as Chinese Karate and continued to seek for answers.
Kenpo is translated as FIST LAW. That is what the kanji represents.
Mr. Parker actually taught 4 version of Kenpo, and he taught different things to different people. there is no other way to teach Kenpo than the way Mr. Parker taught it, some still teach it the way he wanted to be taught, his books infinite insights into kenpo explain his theories and thoughts along with some the major principles and concepts of Ed Parkers Kenpo. He was a genius and an innovator pulling the veil of secrecy off the martial arts and letting everyone know that they didn't have to be oriental to execute movements or to master the arts.
4 versions of Kenpo
oh, please can you name them for us?
or at least give a description?
thanks, Kiyoshi's Dad
I've heard that kenpo/kempo was a style of JJJ. It spread to Hawaii where it started to focus more on strikes and evolved from there.
kenpo was JJJ
I can agree to that. In his book "complete jujitsu" by Bruce Tegner, he says that the style of Kenpo Karate was orginally known as Kenpo Jujitsu.
Good book, btw. A good resource for any MA style, he uses the English description of each technique instead of a Japanese description.
the four types of Kenpo
The four types of Kenpo are as follows:
1. Embryonic Stage.
2. Mechanical Stage.
3. Engineer of Motion.
4. Magician Of Motion.
Now I bet you'll want to know the particulars of each Stage?
I see you are as impatient as ever with ignorance-keep it up!
Go read Kenponet and MartialTalk and you'll see my usual impatience with it as well, nothing like stabbing with a sharp truth stick LOL.
4 stages of Kenpo
sure, I would love to hear about the details about the 4 stages of Kenpo. thanks KD
The first stage of Kenpo learning is embryonic. It is likened to a child learning to crawl and then how to walk. In this stage you learn the proper basics and practice rudimentarily your basic blocking system, basic kicking, and basic strikes. White to Yellow belt ( not as a rule).
The second stage is mechanical - foot work is applied and you go into motion.
You are making more contact with others physically and learning how to generate and govern power when and where necessary. Something you will never fully master until years later.
Thats basically the first two and I'm sure Clyde could add a few things to this list...
Clyde how is Mr. Tatum doing?
Larry's doing great and getting ready for his many seminars he's got scheduled around the globe LOL.
Salesman of Motion-Can speak generally about what Kenpo is and how it works but has very little understanding of it's dynamics.
Mechanic of Motion- Can speak of Kenpo's more technical aspects and has the ability to troubleshoot and repair.
Engineer of Motion- Complete comprehension of movement of Kenpo. Can repair, troubleshoot,dissect, rearrange, and tailor the art for themselves or their students without loss of it's concepts, theories, and principles.
Magician of Motion- A stage of complete enlightenment of Kenpo.\
Phases of Learning
Embryonic phase of Learning-Tabula Rasa- coming in without any preconcieved notions of Kenpo. Rudimentary skills are learned and practiced at this phase, usually with great effort on the part of the practicioner to gain power, speed, and flow.
Mechanical- Has a limited grasp of principles and can perform at an adequate level, still not mature in power, speed, and flow and still has to think about movement instead of instinctually moving.
Spontaneous- Understands the motion and flows spontaneously within the parameters of Kenpo principles. Reaching a subconscience level of movement where reaction is proactive and instinctual with full awareness of target availability and environment.--------------------------------------------------------------
The Qualities and Characteristics of Rank
First-degree black belt.
A first-degree black belt (junior instructor) has achieved a certain level of physical expertise. Understanding the concepts and principles of motion, he has become a formidable fighter defensively and offensively. However, his skills outstrip his ability to communicate and teach, so teaching is essential to any further progress.
Second-degree black belt.
For the second-degree black belt (associate instructor), the ability to teach has begun to reinforce new-found skills. He has discovered that "to teach is to learn", and this is accompanied by a re-evaluation of past mistakes and bad habits. A new sense of responsibility appears, and he must begin to cultivate an image of authority within the school.
Third-degree black belt.
At third degree (senior instructor), the black belt finds that first- and second-degree black belts look to him for guidance and direction in the execution of techniques. He now has the authority within the school environment to organize a curriculum, express policy and set up tests.
Fourth-degree black belt
At fourth degree (head instructor), the black belt acquires the privilege of overriding others within the school after careful discussion, as well as a more mature ability to communicate that allows teaching first-, second- and third- degree black belts. Together with these responsibilities, the fourth-degree black belt assists the master instructor in seminars, demonstrations and other public functions at which the school and the art are represented. His physical expertise should be noticeably above that of more junior black belts, particularly in terms of speed, power and timing
Fifth-degree black belt
The fifth degree black belt (associate professor) has reached the level at which he begins to teach the art beyond the realm of the school. Although the school curriculum has been carefully spelled-out, he is no longer bound by it and has acquired the ability to tailor it to fit individual students. At fifth degree, in short, the black belt now moves on to a broader base of responsibility
Sixth-degree black belt
The sixth-degree black belt (professor) has now reached a level at which he can not only teach the art but begin to formulate its concepts and principles outside his school. As a result, caution becomes imperative. He has advanced to a critical point in his art, and it is at this point that his accumulation of time in grade becomes his defense against teaching what he cannot later retract
Seventh-degree black belt
At seventh degree (senior professor), a noticeable change takes place in the black belt's understanding of his art. He becomes capable of ascertaining the problems that lie within the teaching of the curriculum. Working from a broader base and beginning to teach locally, nationally and internationally what was once taught mainly at home, he now recognizes that his former ways may not work abroad and must be tailored to particular minds, cultures and agendas. He has realized that while the language of the art remains the same, the varied applications of that language must be fitted to the environment. In brief, a seventh degree who goes out to teach in the world must have learned to tailor his teachings to the place and the people.
Eighth-degree black belt
At eighth degree (associate master), the black belt's concerns shift to exploring areas of physical mastership that were not visible to him in the past. His art eventually begins to expand physically and mentally, so much so that a definite physical change becomes evident, expressing the fact that he has begun to settle into a physical mastery. Thus, movements are less contrived because they are in the process of embodied within him.
Ninth-degree black belt
At ninth degree (master of arts), the black belt has reached a level where, at any given moment, he can choreograph a technique by reaching a "superconscious" level. No longer separate from the art he has internalized, he has at last embodied it and become an element of it. What he teaches and what he physically embodies are indivisible. His contributions to the martial arts inside and outside the community are many, and his rank is backed by at least 25 years of sacrifice and service
Tenth-degree black belt
Tenth degree represents a lifelong endeavor to help all humankind. The rank is so respected by peers and students that the person's word affects the course of the art.
(The titles for the 10 ranks of black belt and the basic ideas of the differences between them came from Ed Parker. I have added a few needed definitions and explanations and provided interpretations.)- Larry G. Tatum
Separate names with a comma.