Does size always matter in a street fight?

Ref the first, the line may be smaller but they are still in the heavyweight weight class, as is British Olympic gymnast Louis Smith (super middleweight/heavyweight). I was thinking of most of the gymnastic disciplines.

My general point is that size is not necessarily going to compromise speed or agility. There is a greater relation between ability/experience and speed than size and speed.

 

Fair enough.

In the context of sparring, I'd say that there is a tendency, but by no means a rule, that smaller guys use agility as an attribute more than big people. Smaller people tend to have a better strength-to-weight ratio, and also suffer less from joint impact issues, especially in the knees. If we're talking about people closer to "normal" range, and not professional athletes, bigger people also tend to have a bit less endurance.

Because of the inertia factor, smaller people are knocked down easier than big people, and vice-versa, so big people often rely on timing and power, while the smaller ones rely on agility.

I do agree that it doesn't really affect hand speed, unless the bulk is from weight training without much striking practice.

 

Agreed, I feel that is a strength-to-weight factor. Edit: and with hand speed it is about learning when to relax and when to add tension whilst striking, and how your structure aids that.

There's nothing more scary than someone who used to be big and slimmed down IME. They have everything going for them (again, world class athletes notwithstanding).

 

There is always a Pareto curve with size/speed, but with trained guys the differences are milliseconds. This is Lenny McLean - a former BKB and unlicensed boxer as a large, retired out of shape fighter...I would suggest his speed is more than satisfactory

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DraD1LFGkr8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DraD1LFGkr8[/ame]

His most infamous performance

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU6LEElJ15M"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU6LEElJ15M[/ame]

Now as a boxer Lenny was not actually that good - powerful yes, but undisciplined and uber aggressive and technically sloppy.

On the cobbles though, terrifying

 

That guy is incredible!

"The HATE" :-o

You could see the younger guy start thinking "I'm not as hard as I thought I was".

Edit: he's also a good example of how, if you still have the intent, you can fool your body into doing the things it could when you were younger and fitter (you just can't keep it going as long). I've noticed this in a few older martial artists.

Anyway, we all seem to be converging on agreement now

 

A few things... i'm not sure by what people consider "big" so that part depends. For me... right now i'm about 168-170... but super cut I have been 145 lbs. I've done a lot of lifting since then, so at 155 i'd be about 8% bf or so. My point in this is that a solid 170-180 lb guy to me I would consider big to me.

Another thing to address is that while I haven't been in the ring, I have been watching boxing every chance I have gotten since I was about 18 or so. I'm 34 now. The heavyweight division has not been loaded for a long time. However, to name a few guys that are very fast HW's that come to mind are David Haye, "Fast" Eddie Chambers, of course Roy Jones was a physical marvel and wasn't a true HW, but did win a HW paper title. He was fast though. Look at the Klitschko's... they don't look fast but they have range and that is very important as well. More range means more time it takes YOU to get in closer to them so that you don't get hit by the snapping end of a jab or right hand... that offsets speed a lot.. especially if you yourself get popped in the nose trying to work your way inside to throw hooks and uppercuts and perhaps bodyshots.

Secondly, if you watch boxing on tv it doesn't even come close to watching how fast guys are when you are right there. Don't EVER underestimate a guy who does his art A LOT and boxers only throw punches... that's all they do for hours upon hours. Even a slow boxer is faster than many realize. Not to mention that fluidity is also very important. He doesn't need to hit you with 1 punch when he can follow that up with any number of fluid combinations.. eventually you WILL get hit. How much effect will it have on you? Well that part depends, but even if it just stuns you, there could 2,3,4 more punches coming right behind that. This is the reason obviously we all do... or should train for follow up shots. Put him down and then get out!

Another point is that with the exception of someone like Floyd Mayweather who stays in shape year round, most welterweights will be 147 at weigh in, but will be no less than 155 on fight night and when Floyd fought Victor Ortiz, Ortiz was 164 on fight night. Ricky Hatton got the nickname "fatton" because he would weigh-in at 140 lbs, but would ballon up to 170 and even hit 180 lbs inbetween fights now, at 5'6 and 180 lbs the guy was NOT solid... he was fat and to someone who didn't know he was a professional boxer they would have no clue how fast he could hit you for being a fat guy... so that's another theory that could hold water to someone who didn't throw punches for a living, but that doesn't mean that he's not fast.

So you get into a fight with a "big" guy.. ok you slip the big drunken right hand that is often thrown and you hit him in the nose.. might work just fine.

You fight someone else "big" ... you slip the jab, but miss that there is another "slow" jab coming right behind it and get stung, then comes a straight right hand... not a wide, looping, drunk right hand which hits you, if that one stings you even more you then may have to deal with a left hook or an uppercut coming behind that one that you NEVER see even though it's "slow" compared to a 135 lb boxer, the combination could follow up after that with whatever they or you choose, but you get the idea.

Assumptions can get you hurt or killed which is of course why SD without the physical aspect is preched so much here. Just wanted to put that out there.

 

here's a fat Hatton on the heavy bag... retired and fat at that.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CjV7gAxsjg"]Retired Ricky Hatton on bag - YouTube[/ame]

 

Dr Lecter meets "The Hitman"....

 

I would NOT want those punches coming my way!

Love his "terrier bark" breathing style

 

You're such a name-dropping luvvy! ;p

 

HA!! Awesome man... always loved Ricky. He is what got me into boxing initially. Where's your tapout shirt????

 

It was in my luggage...."Classic Marvel" was the look de jour

 

I am seriously disappointed that you're not wearing a Tapout, Bad Boy, or Silver Star shirt Mr. Hannibal. I feel let down.

 

That's what i'm saying! What's wrong with you lecter???? Did you have Clarice on your mind or were you busy making a skin suit?

 

Today's shirt just to shut you all up....that finger looks rider than it is btw

 

Say whaaaa... ?

 

*ahem* "ruder"

 

Don't know, there wasn't a doctor or a Xray machine on the premise, just a lot of bleeding.

People have to stop entertaining such ideas that a strike to the nose, groin, eyes, temple, etc., are "magic bullets" in a fight

 

This is a dumbfounded statement bordering racism and stereotyping.

 

:woo: MY POINT EXACTLY with yours adding extra measures.