Does Fornication deplete Chi?

Seeing as how you have a nude child with wings in your avatar...

 

Tosh!!!

Anyone can see it is a nickerless fairy

round here we call them tylwyth teg.

 

Is that what Britney is? Here we have a different word for them, but love them all the same

 

Why does this subject always bring out the childish/embarrassed/ashamed comments? Why not talk about it like talking about the weather? I don't get it. ;(

The answer to your question is yes. Yes sexual activity will deplete your chi, weaken you physically, and usually shorten your life span.

I could explain why but.......I feel there will be another deluge of childish posts after this message. The information will be buried or ignored.

Instead, let you offer you something. Nobody ever really believes anyone else . They only believe themselves. You won't believe what I wrote above, so I will offer you a way to prove it to yourself.

The next time you engage in sexual activity, stop for a second and do the following.

(1) Palpate your chest. Palpate means to feel up. Feel your chest from center to the side of your torso and from top to bottom. You want to pay attention to the shape and tone of your chest. Any spots or bumps or depressions would be could to note also.

(2) Palpate your buttocks. Feel your buttocks from center to side and top to bottom. Now clench your buttocks and repeat the examination.

(3) Look in the mirror and examine the condition of your eyes. Are they black, how big are they, are they round, are the soft or hard looking....that kind of thing.

(4) There is something else you really need to do, but I do not know what the mores here are about discussion of genitalia so you will not be able to do this one.

Now go ahead and engage in your sexual activity.

An hour or two later, go back and repeat 1-3 above and compare the before and after. Then you should also repeat 1-3 above again 24 hours later and compare.

The results will undeniably convince you that sex does deplete your chi and affect your physical body. You will discover that your buttocks and chest will become flaccid after sex. How can you punch or kick with flaccid buttock and chest muscles? You will discover your eyes are sunken and darker. How can you see to fight if your eyes are shruken and darker?
----------------

This post is something you should write down and save. This is so important and so useful that you will tell it to your own students someday.

 

This is close to exactly what I have been taught. Though, something important here is that Fornication generally does NOT deplete Qi for women. Women are creatures of blood is a common term, this means women are actually weaker and lose most of their life essence through menstruation.
Where as men lose there their Qi and vital essence Jing through Fornication, that is why there are numerous (unfortunatly mostly bogus) sexual techniques taught now. Many of these will actually hurt men and/or women long term than help them.
Unless you can somehow learn from a truly experienced master, it is better to follow a few simple rules concerning fornication for men:
1) ages 20-30, usually pretty good with fornication once a week, never before training, or directly after, a good rule of thumb was 24 hours between each. This is because you will only destroy your essence even greater if you have not replenished the energy you used.
2) 30-40 spread fornication time once every 2 weeks, this is because men's kidneys are just starting to weaken here and this is the main source of their jing/essence
3) 40-50 once a month
4) 50-beyond, not really necessary for a male to have fornication at this time.

These were just some very general rules used, and obviously not for everyone, some people are very virile. Also remember though, it is NOT healthy to not fornicate, this will actually cause a backup of Jing and cause problems down the road. The only way to completely abstain is to learn also from a qualified master, the various meditations it does require to turn, Jing to Qi, to Shen.
One great method that seems to work fairly well is to abstain for 2-4 weeks and see when you "get the urge" if you get it once a week, this is all that is needed. Follow your body and don't push yourself is the idea here.

 

I sincerely doubt this can be done... the Buddhist tradition for instance which is big on meditation still has allowances for 'nocturnal emisions' for monks because... well you just can't prevent your body from doing what it was designed to.

I really don't understand how someone could believe this. The human body is designed to have sex, it makes no evolutionary sense that having sex should shorten your life span or weaken you physically. On top of this we know physiologically what happens to your body when you have sex... and we know that it does not weaken you physically or shorten your lifespan. If anything the exercise of sex will strengthen you physically over time you might feel more tired immediately afterwards but you feel tired after say going for a run and that does not 'weaken you physically'. I don't understand how anyone can believe this kind of stuff.

The physical differences you discuss as well are completely understandable! Of course your heartbeat increases, your muscles are more tense than usual and your pupils expand because having sex is an aroused state! It's not like your normal walking around state... I don't see how any of that proves that sex weakens you. It just proves that when your having sex your in a rather different state than when your not having sex... and taking a quick look at your genitals would have told you that.

Oh and about the eyes they are probably going to be sunken and darker because you've been up all night having sex and haven't had a good sleep. Not having a good sleep will weaken but then that's common sense.

 

eh???

 

I would have thought regular fornication would increase your chi.

having a healthy sex life with someone you love should make most people on the whole much happier, which should promote happier more positive feelings.

Just my thoughts.

 

A simple experiment any man can try for himself. Don’t spend your chi, so to speak , for a week or two and see how you feel.

Most likely, after a week your gonna feel very agitated and maybe even aggressive. Why do these feelings arise? Because you have kept energy within yourself and it wants out, unless you know how to use it, keep it and regulate it, you should probably let it out. Very simple really, no need for scientific studies etc etc, just try and see.

Another way you can look at it is by considering the amount of time that you devote to thinking/fantasizing about the opposite sex. What is driving this obsession? Is it perhaps not one of the most powerful urges after breathing and eating. Consider the amount of energy you can save or control if you had control over the driving force of this obsession.

 

There was plenty of it going around, in the days of old, when knights were bold and all that...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shudo

Gary

 

Does this mean that lawful sex between husband and wife doesn't deplete chi? The thread specifies fornication as the possible culprit, not lawful relations. :Angel:

 

Okay,

CK,
You are right Buddhist monks advocated that nocturnal emission was acceptable. While Taoist monks believed in even being able to overcome nocturnal emissions. Though this was more due to their training of changing Jing to Qi to Shen, that they are able to stop nocturnal emission. Too much nocturnal emission is considered unhealthy and depletes Qi, in TCM it is an actual medicine condition.

Also, it does weaken a Male immediately, most men "roll over and go to sleep" this is because you are exhausted. Now it could be an urban myth, but I have heard that when men "have relations" it is equivalent to a loss of 600 calories, this kind of consistent calorie loss could also be detrimental to an extent.
Also when men get to a certain age their kidney's and adrenals begin to get gradually weaker (kidney stones anyone??) in TCM this is a condition of being "oversexed" younger, in addition to having a bad back, weak legs or knees and hair greying or falling out prematurely.

This goes to Wuming's eh??? In Taoist thought you should be able to retain your hair, stand up straight, and not have grey hair until well into 70-80's. Excessive sexual relations depletes this, this is why they say as a general rule after 50, man should be more concerned with preserving his Yuan Qi (original Qi) for spiritual cultivation. Also, males have reached a sort of "spiritual maturity" At this age, one ancient thought was that at the age of 60 you begin to "relive" your life, i.e. same exp. with different situations. It is just now you (should hopefully) have the spiritual knowledge and wisdom to react differently, sort of a way to straighten out past karma.

Hiroji,
You are right, having a loving trusting partner is much better than having gratuitous sex. Actually if you have a loving and trusting partner you can perform sexual cultivation techniques to replenish both partner's Qi. Though, if you don't know how to do this, it is best to just have a loving relationship and not a "wreckless" relationship.

Inthespirit,
You are right, it is not healthy to abstain from sex for these urges are natural as you explain. However, Taoists thought to channel these thoughts in various forms of meditation thus actually increasing Qi, via jing to Qi to Shen. Thus stopping the "cravings" and need for sexual satisfaction.

Qaism,
For the most part it is similar to hiroji's above,

Hope it helps all

 

Thanks Taoquan, but I think you missed the point of my post.

 

Ok, OK... my point was though that even a tradition where generally speaking meditation plays a huge part and celibicy is regarded as a positive thing recognised the limitations imposed by the human body. This is not even always true but in the various Vinayana you do find rules relating to nocturnal emissions.

Anyhow... yes you are correct Taoist texts and priests did and do discuss how to refine and mantain your 'essences' so that you don't need to release anything however it's worth remembering that Taoism has also made claims like it is possible to physically become an immortal via sexual abstinence, a special diet and so on. On top of this Taoism was not generally a very monastically inclined religion so most of the priests throughout history have not been celibate monks but married priests which is highlighted by the fact that many positions in Taoist groups were hereditary. Here the point again is that it's easy to say something happens but it's not so easy to make it actually true.

In relation to the deterioration of the human body the thing is that thanks to modern science we know that the ageing process is not caused by how much sex you have. Thus someone that doesn't have sex is also likely to develop weakened kidneys because well your body came with a time limit. Also things like balding are clearly not to do with your sexual drive... by and large the main factor for balding is genetic and no amount of not ejaculating is going to stop you going bald if you have the genes for early balding.

And this highlights my issue with some of the 'advice' on this thread. We know baldness is not caused by how much you have sex so to say sex causes baldness is just wrong even if it is the belief of some non-scientific tradition.

 

Could you expand on this, I dont see the conection.

 

ck,
1) you are right, I also do in fact know of one Taoist priest whom has 3 kids. So you are exactly right here
2) I am not advocating celibacy or abstinence in any case, merely pointing out that the theory that this post originally was posted upon was more or less the Taoist belief that Sexual relations can deplete Qi. So in those terms yes excessive sex can deplete Qi, in the taoist belief.
3) Depends here on the scientific tradition, since the original post was a question about Qi, I assumed the poster (forgive me i don't recall whom) had some basic idea or belief about Qi. If this poster does believe in Qi, he/she should also know this is a theory within that realm, western or eastern thought aside.

 

My point was that regardless of whether or not you abstain from sex or have sex the ageing process will still occur. Thanks to modern research we understand alot about the ageing process and from this we know the ageing process is not related to how much you ejaculate.

And Taoquan I understand what your saying and I do respect that the Taoist tradition does say things such as you have posted however it's the validity of what it says that I'm challenging. I'm not trying to debate the existence or non-existence of chi what I am trying to point out that there is strong evidence against the kind of statements that people have stated as facts in this thread.

The suggestion that sex overtime weakens you physically is either correct or incorrect and regardless of your views on chi there are very strong arguments against sex weakening you physically. Now if he had only discussed how sex can deplete your chi while again not being something I would agree with, it's not something I would really argue against. Its the portrayal of sex as having a negative impact physically on the body that Im debating as Ive said it would make no sense evolution wise to have a body that had a strong sex drive and yet got weaker the more sex it indulged in.

 

Thanks CKava.

Out of interest, how many people in this discussion have expirience specifically working with sexual energy in a Qi Gong or Yogic framework? Please share some aspects of your expirience?

 

Ck,
I apologize if this is how I portrayed it, I don't think it is healthy to abstain from sex. To have it 3x a day everyday for 20 years will have some negative effects. I did also state that one should NOT abstain from sex unless, they do know how to control their own jing and cultivate Qi properly. Basically unless they know the proper techniques it should not necessarily be a concern, so long as it is not excessive. I think the wisdom here is that excessive sex does somewhat border on obsession and lust, this is not necessarily healthy, this is one aspect Taoists do maintain as these are not healthy sexual relations.

Inthespirit,
I have worked with Sexual Qigong and when practiced properly it does help one rejeuvenate and feel better overall. though I cannot go into the specifics (unsure of how specific we can get on threads) basically the man still experiences the "great sensation" without the proposed "release." This is the idea behind Sexual Qigong as you are raising your energy and still experiencing the "great sensation" without loss of Jing or original essence.
However, improper practice can severely damage people. Not even in an energetic sense (which is also possible) but even on a physical level. This idea of hitting a specific point at a certain time, causes damage to the muscle and genitalia. This is even frowned upon in Taoist circles as anytime you "Force" something to take place this is not natural.

 

Thanks Taoquan,

Could you please clarify, do you mean to say that the Sexual Qigong you refer to is only practiced during intercourse?

In my experience, this sort of Qi Gong should not be practiced during an aroused state until one is firmly in control of one self and one's sexual energy, the excited/aroused jing is much more volatile and harder to control. On top of this one should be well grounded with the earth and know how to drain energy out of oneself. As you say these practices can be very dangerous, if done improperly one can quite easily go mad. Though the madness is much more likely to occur in Indian Yogic practices as the do not work so much on a downward/grounding current. Some peoples experiences with such problems can be found here: http://www.kundalini.se/eng/n_engkni_1024.html