What Giovanni and Aikiwolfie have said. There is nothing stopping an aikidoka, or anyone else for that matter, finding a nice quiet place and a few like minded fellow practitioners - even better if you are all from different training backgrounds - and then going exactly as hard as you want. The training is the vehicle for imparting concepts and technique, the application is a matter of personal attitude and whatever your objectives are. paul
But increasing intensity with fellow minded practitioners is (or should be) a part of training, and as such should be guided by a competent coach/sensei. Why should people be expected to puzzle out the execution of the techniques on their own, isn't that why they train under an instructor? Sending people off to spar without first providing them with competent instruction in how to spar is a recipe for disaster (and more bad youtube videos).
Very true. It's easy to say "well ok we'll just add sparring to our curriculum", but wuthout priper progression it will be worse than useless. A good instructor not only teaches content but also how to learn the content - and this means guiding students from static drills to anything goes. Judo and Kendo do this very well with the way the exercises progress, as i'm sure do boxing etc. For what it's worth too, I've dabbled in Aikido and I firmly believe it's a system to learn fighting principles, NOT fighting technique. A good example is the exerscise in seiza where you pin Uke, then whenever he tries to get back up you shove your hand in his face, forcing him to block, then pin him again by the defending arm - yes it's a totally unrealistic scenario and yes, if he actuallyl tried to pre-empt it he could avoid the pin, but you ARE getting comfortable with the concept of attacking before your opponent is in a position to fight back. This isn't an excuse for lollipop attacks mind you - I tend to think Uke should literally try to hit through you, like a sword. That way it is overcommitted enough and exaggerated enough that you can practice the exercise (note the term i've used) but you still get wholloped if you don't move. Actual fighting ability/practice is then handled by your Judo or Kendo or whatever. Obviously just my point of view, but if you look at the history of early Aikido I think this is all pretty obvious.
Also you should have people amongst the student actually knowing how to throw a punch. A typical chop that connects is not enough. Which will have little merit if you seldom strike or learn striking from someone that have a mediocre understanding of it. Well first he have to be able to. Which I kinda feel is the point made by the force on force crowd. The cage scenario is a no brainer. The self defense scenario, the victim must first be able to cross those levels. And being a practitioner of a force on force activity does not mean you will not regard legal consequences. Neither most force on force practice or aikido have legal teachings in their curriculum. It might be learned by interested parties in the group by personal initiatives at the side. So, a bjj practitioner is so daft that he will walk straight in to an obvious trap? Again it is not an aikido thing to avoid a bad place. It is being street smart. Anyone can do it. The thing that the force on force crowd understand is that a physical altercation is struggling. There wont be a clean technique. There will be several mistakes that you move in and out of. What will happen to an aikidokas mental state when his knife defense is not working, when he feels in grave danger and have lost all control? Is he realistically trained for that? Has he every week with his like minded practitioner practiced beyond the first technique and struggled to gain control? If he has not, will a technique just work in the real world? A small percent chance maybe?
those points are equally applicable to like 90% of TMA though ludde, not just aikido (although aikido is one of the worst affected by it)
This really comes down to the quality of the training and the mentality of the artist in question rather than the specific art itself though. Aikido doesn't have "legal teachings" in the same way that any Judo club doesn't have "legal teachings". You've also got to remember that force on force is fine, but you will resort under pressure to what your training/instincts dictate first and foremost (whether good or bad). I don't think anyone said anything of the sort, did they? Also, I don't practice it but surely bjj is more about technique and skill rather than strength (which is also true of Aikido)? It's certainly not an "Aikido exclusive" thing, but it is a big part of the teachings and philosophy in most dojos. Which comes in handy for peeps who don't know better. I do think you are being unfairly dismissive on this front. No-one's suggesting otherwise. There's also the point that any good Aikido dojo will have increasing levels of resistance to deal with in the training as well as faster, more aggressive attacks. So you realise that it is easy to mess up but have to keep calm as best as you can. Moot point verging on deserving to be called a "strawman" and not really worth dealing with. That's down to the person's mind set and the method in which they train, it's not art specific. It's no different to saying "what happens to a BJJ/Judo/Boxing/Muay Thai/Karate/JKD/(insert your own) dude when X happens?"
I wonder. For the aikido crowd - do you train combinations of techniques? ie do you attempt a technique, have it fail, then transition to another technique, have it countered, transition to another technique etc? I would assume so (because a style that doesn't is beyond salvation), but I don't think I've ever seen an example of it.
I haven't really trained in Aikido for quite a few months so I've forgotten a lot of terminology but yes, if memory serves we called it Jiyu Waza, continuous techniques. We even trained with more than one punch at a time (although both would be dodgy big lunge punches). A lot of the weapon work also requires continuous movement as a major principle. I'm another long time Aikidoka who has more or less moved on to BJJ as I had to be honest with myself and what Aikido training is limited to. Still a great art but sometimes you need a reality check.
The level of resistance varies by grade and by the individual, so it can vary wildly from total co-operation (quite often used as a warm up) to full counters, however the resistance I've mainly seen would be more akin to uke keeping their balance and not just throwing themselves with the technique rather than them countering...at least mostly.
It has been posted before, but this is a great example of "non compliant" Aikido...and it isn;t pretty to watch. That sais I actually really enjoyed it [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX0yseYpoBA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX0yseYpoBA[/ame]
Yeah. It starts off with Jiyu Waza (which is more like "freestyle attack/defense stuff with varying levels of aggro and resistance). There's also a type of practice I can't remember the name where you actively apply reversal techniques while your partner attempts to apply a technique to you in turn. There's also competitive aikido...but no-one wants to talk about that
It's called kaeshi-waza reversal/countering technique) and it's useful to test both effectiveness of technique and ukeme. I think it's best used sparingly as it usually does end up in acontest of some kind; which isn't pretty.
agreed. that's the problems with the attacks i've seen in aikido. some ukes have no idea how to even apply the pressure necessary. but i've also worked with gentlemen and ladies who knew where and how to strike.
Here is a clip I like with a Aikido in a competition format. The use of atemi through a kuzushi and to invoke reaction from the opponent is shown in the beginning in slow motion. The whole video is good to watch. If just wanting to jump to competition, start about 11:30 and enjoy. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t1wrXha2TA"]Kenji Tomiki Aikido kyogi part 2 handbrake - YouTube[/ame] Note that this video is from 1975. You still had a lot of judo players and level of cross-training in Aikido at that time. IMHO.
Yes. My old teacher used to do this quite a bit. But again this is something that comes down to the quality of the training. I have no doubt there are clubs out there that stick to static one on one forms. We also used to have 5 or 10 uke line up and attack in rapid succession one after the other as well as deal with up to 8 uke in a circle attacking at random. Often the uke would be numbered and another person would call the numbers. So even the uke had no idea who was going to attack next.
That's quite unfair. The guy was stopping to explain a point. You can't have people running in kamikaze style when your trying to explain the finer points of the technique.
Typically in my experience the level of resistance offered depends on the relative experience of both practitioners.
I'm not saying the guy isn't capable of applying the technique under pressure, but that video doesn't show him doing it and as so it's just like a million other aikido videos.
